I moved this here because it's a nonfictional article, moreso than a story.

Doctor Horst Schumann performed x-ray castration expreiments at Auschwitz. The doctor would x-ray the male testicles, then he used a rubber dildo type club inserting it into the rectum to

stimulate an ejaculation of semen from the man's penis, which

Schumann would then send the sperm to the lab to have it analyzed.

Usually The Doctor would remove one of the man's testicles and

send it to the lab for pathological dissecting. The males were subject to more sperm collecting by the medical staff and even more x-ray radiation treatments till it came time to remove the final testicle.

Even Doctor Schumann, after conducing the x-ray radiation,

finally agreed with other doctors that the x-ray radiation was

not as reliable as surgical castration which he stated in a letter to

Himmler. Surgical castration can be preformed between 6 to 7 minutes and all x-ray experiments should be discontinued and just surgical castration of all inferior males should be prefomed.

But by then it was too late for a mass castration of millions of

prisoners as he and Himmler were hoping for; the camp days were almost up. This was spring of 1944 only a few thousand males were castrated one after another.

Note - I don't have the source material to verify this. If someone could verify and email me, I'd appreciate it. I'm only familiar with Josef Mengele's "works." - Paolo.

I condone none of the actions in the story, but in the past 10 yrs I've learned a lot. It could very well be true. The German's hated ethnic people after WWI. Poverty and inflation was so bad that they were using a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. The ethnics had the money, so I can understand how the Germans were angry at them, but they went to terrible extremes that were not tolerated by the rest of the world. Even if a person believes they were "correct" in their thinking, they should have simply deported the ethnics, and the ethnics should have been smart enough to "leave with their money"! There were plenty of places they could have gone. But like the old saying, "They tried to beat City Hall"! I know a good bit about Joseph Mengele and also Kurt Valdheim (sp for now?). the Jewish people are still after them. They think Mengele is still alive in South America, and about 15 yrs ago; they tried to kill Valdheim on several occasions when he was president of austria/hungary (name at the time). It's very terrible but very interesting stuff. From what I know, neither Mengele nor Valdheim were involved in any of the terrible things; and probably didn't even know about it. I think we hear the names now just because they were Germans during WWII, and they may be still alive. How many of my fellow Irish/Americans were drafted into WWII, and were froced to fight all kinds of nationalities? The problem is that the war "Victor" never has any criminals, but the "Loser" always has several thousand. Anyhow, I got on my "soapbox"; but I'll try to do some more research. It's got my interest up. thanks for the Post --- Sugar ---

I seriously doubt if any of the war criminals sought by Israel are still alive. If they were in their 30's in WW2, then they'd all be pushing 90 by now. Even if they are alive, chances are they don't remember what they did.

I would very much like to find an issue of the LIFE magazine from the early 80's or late 70's that had the big write up on Mengele. It's horrible what happened, but as the old saying goes, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Sent for posting by an anon. reader:

I am very sensitive to mis-information about the holocaust. I would answer this myself but I do not wish to identify openly as Jewish. There is so much hatred and misinformation!! This got to me: It was posted by Sugar in the Nazi flame under nonfiction Please post without a name. First the mis-information:

"

Sugar (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:50 am I condone none of the actions in the story, but in the past 10 yrs I've learned a lot. It could very well be true. The German's hated ethnic people after WWI. Poverty and inflation was so bad that they were using a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. The ethnics had the money, so I can understand how the Germans were angry at them, but they went to terrible extremes that were not tolerated by the rest of the world. Even if a person believes they were "correct" in their thinking, they should have simply deported the ethnics, and the ethnics should have been smart enough to "leave with their money"! There were plenty of places they could have gone.

"

First of all there was almost nowhere for the holocaust victums to go. Most of them were Polish, and no different in regard to wealth to anyone else in Poland. The German Jews, unless they got out before the war, such as the Frank family (Anne Frank) who was German they could not leave, and then the countries they went to sent them to the camps anyway. IE France and Holland,

A ship full of Jewish children from Germany arrived in New York, and the ship was sent back to Germany. Most of those children were killed. THAT is why Israel is so important to the Jewish people. The Jews believe that they must have a place where unwanted Jews can go, as there was no where for them, that is why 6 million Jews were slaughtered!

Anon, first of all there's not a darn thing wrong with you being Jewish if you are! That's no embarassment at all! You didn't see my last post , I guess? The French collaborated with the Germans to save their own skins. You and I have maybe done the some thing! Fortunately, we were not there. Stallin killed 15 million Russions, and yes; some of them were Jewish! About 15 million of my Irish ancestors came to the USA between about 1844 -1852. They were literally "starving" in the UK. The wealthy in the Uk tried to save them for a few years, but the cold winters, no clothing, and a drought of even "simple" potatoes killed a couple of million there. They came into NY, Boston, and New Orleans! About half were forced into the Union Army to fight the US Civil War. Many others died trying to build the Eire Canal and the eastern half of the US transcontinental railroad. In Louisiana, USA, they died in the swamps building the earthworks to build New Orleans to only about 1/5 of what that metro is today. Even black people were not subjected to that at the time, and that should not have been done either! The rule at the time was "If we pay an Irishman 5 cents a day, and he dies of disease; it was still a good deal. If we put a Black man in there, and he dies; it might cost us some money." All of this is terrible stuff, and I'm sorry if you're still paranoid about it. I guess it's still possible that Joseph Menegle might come out of Argentina and get you! You better dedicate the rest of your life for the purpose of killing him. Jewish people do not want him to be dead. If they saw him die, they would try to bring him back to life so they could personally be the ones to kill him "again & again"! When will the Jewish people get over it. All they have is 9 billion a yr from the US and all the terrorist weapons they want from the US. All we're doing in the US is fueling a big fire. We started it in 1947 when we confiscated the Islam lands and "dedicated" it to the Jews. How would you like it if your house/lot was "Nationalized" and given to you're neighbor. Sorry to get on my "soapbox", but you know nothing about what you're trying to talk about. How old are you, Hon? I'm 51! You need to understand that the world is a mean place for all of us. It is not juist a "Love Place" for Jewish people. We need to get on the road together, but as long as the Jews try to stay "aloft" and stay in their own little groups; that will be hard to do! Think about it, Hon! --- Sugar ---

Waldheim was NOT President of "Austria Hungary" which has not existed since the end of the first world war. You probably need to do a little more reading before you start making sweeping historical statements.

Sugar (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:50 am From what I know, neither Mengele nor Valdheim were involved in any of the terrible things; and probably didn't even know about it.

BULLS#IT!

I have talked to a woman who was a victim of DOKTOR Mengele's viscious, infamous, "TWINS" experiments.

What happened in Germany during the holocaust could happen ANYWHERE if we allow ourselves to be caught up in predjudice.

I will again post the lists of websites listing information about how the Nazis IRRADIATED the testicles on GAY men in an attempt to sterilize them because they believed that homosexuality was inherited. Also, all of the other information on castration that I can find on the net.

BTW, this is NOT a flame.

It is the truth. They always told me that if you can't stand the heat, then get the hell out of the kitchen. GOOD ADVICE.

I cannot believe that anyone still buys the LIES that the holocaust didn't actually happen. They must have never seen movies of the starved bodies that the allies had to bury with bulldozers on the HISTORY CHANNEL.

How that logic went I am afraid to ask, since true homosexual men seldiom if ever find a woman and reproduce. If they do, by definition they are bi-sexual, not homosexual.

It has also been postulated that many high-ranking Nazis were repressed homosexuals, which could explain their inexcusable cruelty to the Gay population in Europe in the 1930's and 1940's.

Well, that's all for now.

:realpisse A-1 :realpisse

I found Sugar's post most alarming. As an historian, I was undecided whether his inaccurate commentary stemmed from him confirming that 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' or was a deliberate attempt to rewrite history, as certain Nazi apologists have been trying to do.

However, Paolo's anonymous respondent also seems to forget that the Jews understandable but flawed post-World War II search for a homeland resulted in the forced displacement of many Arabs from their ancestral homelands, and over 50 years of hatred and still inconclusive bloody strife, culminating recently in the amazing and appallingly ironic sight of the Israeli army acting as if it was the WWII SS when destroying the Palestinian refugee camp of Jenin. The Nazis perpetrated such horrors in retaliation for assassinations and other harm caused by resistance movements. Given what they've done, I can't see how the Israelis can really claim higher moral ground or see how they can expect to garner peace, as opposed to yet more deep animosity and bloodshed, through such methods.

The Nazis believed in the efficacy of 'an eye for an eye' and were eventually proven wrong. I think that the present Israeli government will find that they've made the same mistake!

PUEROS

P.S.:- The true fate of 'the Angel of Death', Dr. Josef Mengele, was summarised at the end of my tale 'Fatherlands'.

Sugar (imported) wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:10 am All of this is terrible stuff, and I'm sorry if you're still paranoid about it. I guess it's still possible that Joseph Menegle might come out of Argentina and get you! You better dedicate the rest of your life for the purpose of killing him.

I dont' think you meant this the way it sounds, but in certain areas, prejudice is alive and well - and VERY much so after Sept. 11, 2001. I can't blame this person one bit for wanting to remain anon. in this thread.

Jewish, Arabic, African-descent, homosexual, whatever the HELL IT IS now, it's still all the same. People will always find something to hate someone else over. One look at the nose, and it's "Oh, he's a Jew, hang onto your money!" or one look at a large black man with a lot of jewelry and you're moving to the other side of the corridor/street and checking your wallet. A single man tries to offer aid to a crying child in a mall and he's automatically a pedophile trying to grab him. Sad but true.

There's nothing like common/shared hatred to bind people of one nationality/race together, and that's precisely what the Nazis did.

The Jews and their neighbors have been mixing it up for thousands of years; the Bible is a great source of history, even if you dont' believe the rest of it! There's not a damn thing anyone is going to be able to do about the Middle East, either. They should just put Arafat and Sharon in a little room with baseball bats and whoever comes out alive wins.

A-1 mentions knowing a lady that survived Megele's camp. So do I. I believe we are talking about the same lady here in Indiana, one Ms. Eva Kore. She runs a small memorial Holocaust Museum in Terre Haute, IN. I'm guessing at this, as I know A-1 is in the Midwest here somewhere and Eva is rather well-known. I have NO doubt, as some do, that the Holocaust really happened and that "Herr Doktor" or "Onkel Josef" as some of the kids called him, was very real and did do some horrific experiments. I've reproduced, digitized and restored several of Ms. Kore's images for her. Many of them, all fantasy aside, left me in tears when I was done.

Not only the images, but some of the stories about how he was such a kind and gentle man who "loved" and cared for his victims right up until he started experimenting on them! Some years ago, around 1980, LIFE Magazine had a long article on Mengele and ran an image of a lineup of young boys, while somewhat underfed, weren't emaciated yet. Upon closer inspection, one can see that the boys were fully nullified eunuchs. I saw one of the first generation copies of this print first hand, and I can assure you, it's a real image, and she knew them.

It's just another example of mans' inhumanity to man. This one might have gotten more press than some others, but it's all the same. Black slavery in the US circa 1860, the abuse of immigrants, the current hatred of gays (Matthew Shepard) ..... it's all the same thing. It just takes on a different target over time in certain areas.

If you want a good read, find the novel "LORD OF THE FLIES" by Wm. F. Golding or rent the video, the 1963 one if you can find it. It's based on the theory that even innocent children are inheirently evil and will revert to savagery if given the chance. What a species we are ...

Note - Neither A-1 nor myself live in TH, IN. We've been there, I used to work there, but we dont' live there. Who'd want to? Indiana's a big place, really ... easy to get lost in.

I think that a lot of people are lining up to post on this thread, partly to make very clear that the perceived tone of a couple of responses is NOT the opinion of this quasi-community.

Specifically, the responses by "Sugar" have been troubling because they're so poorly written.

I can't tell if he/she is trying to make a joke or not. His/her tone seems to model the "don't take me seriously with this one" tone that you might say to an eleven-year-old that you don't like, "go play in traffic, little boy." (You don't actually expect, I'd hope, to be taken at face value.)

If not, then what Sugar's saying isn't just stupidly said, but is simply stupid.

Sugar's first post on the thread has things that are reasonable buried in the unfortunate prose: that the Jews were visible targets in Europe because they hung together as a somewhat-visible minority, and were convenient as a target when the Germans (and others, during different periods) wanted someone to hate. "Hate" is one of the most compelling ways to manipulate the masses; "Hunger" is good, too. Lenin had "Hunger" on his side in 1917; Hitler had both on his side in 1933. (If you can get xenophobia on your side, which is a specialized form of hatred, you can launch armies to help support your cause. We've seen that form of hatred at work during the entire 20th Century and into the 21st. See the most recent news for details.)

Humans are opportunists, and human nature seems to support that. While that makes things understandable, and this "instinct" that is called "human nature" is strong, it's not impossible to harness and control.

Someone mentioned the book, "The Lord of the Flies." While I don't like the book (I think it's a bit over the top) it makes excellent points on this topic.

Going back to Sugar, I cannot tell what he/she is saying. That Jews should get used to it, that the world *is* a bad place, that until the Jews get "over it" they'll keep repeating mistakes?

At the very least, that's substantially off the topic of this board. (And at the worst, is boorish and unwelcome, to my ears.)