This post is found as replies to other posts but I thought it may be an interesting new thread.

I guess my body is really weird. I have been on shots, gel, pills, etc. since the 1990's. They took my peak T levels over 1300 at times but generally in the 800-900 range peak. I have been completely off HRT for periods of time and am currently off. At levels of 800 or so I had problems. I feel better, have as much energy, lose weight (15-20 lbs.) each time I get off HRT. I am married and my sex life is active off HRT. I have no depression, no hot flashes or sweats, no memory issues, bone density issues, or any of the problems that most talk about. The only change is in my attitude towards sex. I am able to perform especially with levitra or prostaglandin but really don't mind if I go longer periods between sex. It is also much more difficult to orgasm but I don't mind that either. My testosterone level is down to 13 ng/Dl or basically none. Below 50 is considered castrate level by most Drs. Certainly below 20 is castrate level. I have not had cancer. My Endochronologist is puzzled with my response to no HRT. I am curious if there are others that really do not see much life change off testosterone completely.

My theory is that we all are wired to "normalize" our current hormone levels. When I had low levels I thought I was "fine" however I was clearly more moody, less (to not) interested in sex, having memory issues, unable to complete (or start) tasks etc. Was I upset or felt weird about this? No... It was outside comments that led me to seek help and I was quickly told that I "looked" depressed. The hormones were tested to make sure it wasn't that and of course it was. When I went on HRT I had one sudden "Wow" moment which (my theory) is that cusp when you see for a moment how you were and what you have become. Its never happened again btw.

It quickly felt normal to be interested and NEED sex. It felt normal to wake up with energy, to be able to read (and follow) a book. To get things done and so forth.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:40 am It quickly felt normal to be interested and NEED sex. It felt normal to wake up with energy, to be able to read (and follow) a book. To get things done and so forth.

Thank you mrt! This is my exact thought~

People around me had been asking the dreaded questions, "are you OK?" "is something wrong?" all the while i was off hormones. now that i have adjusted to being on them again i get comments like, "you look great" & "wow, you seem really happy".

I feel so much more productive and interactive in my life. Instead of feeling like life was a looking glass i now feel like i am one with my environment, i am a part of this busy world & i like it.

HRT has been working great for me, i am content.

z

well I dont take any HRT, and I feel like absolute hell, however I think I would be willing to adjust to this hell if I had money and didnt have to worry about rent and a job, my problem is I hate putting chemicals in my body and I am not sure if I should some how suck it up what I am feeling and get a job as painful as it would be or go the TRT route and probably feel better but know that it isnt really me and I probably wouldnt be happy from the mental aspect of it and from the side effects I hear

I probably would be able to adjust to not having any HRT if I was able to stay in my own little world but the problem is you have to fucking conform

Hi Z!

Thanks for your message. I've wondered how you are doing and whats doing with you? I'm glad your feeling better on HRT. God knows I do! The problem is that when I was low to no hormones I still felt "normal" that I was still "me" but I wasn't acting that way as all my friends, family kept hinting. Your tired all the time? Why can't you make up your mind? When did you stop reading? Why are you working at this min wage job? A: Its ALL I CAN do!!! Etc. Post HRT I can read, remember, do stuff (Not just sex) and I don't feel like I'm just standing around waiting to croak...

I think that its important to note that "hormones" are not always the same as "chemicals"

For me I draw the line at synthetic almost just LIKE hormones. Some of the estrogens that are altered so they might be patented. Based on horse hormones etc. My wife won't use them - we use Bio Identical Hormones. These are created to be exactly the same as the ones that are in the human body.

Anyway, research what is out there. If your using Estrogen more and more companies make "real" Human Estrogen (or Testosterone). If you have problems you can always use a Compounding pharmacy be it Testosterone or Estrogen.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:22 pm I don't feel like I'm just standing around waiting to croak...

.

I wonder if this is the universal feeling of life without T because this is pretty much how I feel, the only time I am happy is when I am drowsy and I am hoping I die in my sleep

... When did you stop reading? ...

Two eunuch friends both, quite independently, told me that they stopped reading. To have another report the same is more than a little depressing.

However it is good to hear that there is a fix for that in HRT.

Matthew

notalife (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:21 pm well I dont take any HRT, and I feel like absolute hell, however I think I would be willing to adjust to this hell if I had money and didnt have to worry about rent and a job, my problem is I hate putting chemicals in my body and I am not sure if I should some how suck it up what I am feeling and get a job as painful as it would be or go the TRT route and probably feel better but know that it isnt really me and I probably wouldnt be happy from the mental aspect of it and from the side effects I hear

I probably would be able to adjust to not having any HRT if I was able to stay in my own little world

notalife (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:32 pm but the problem is you have to fucking conform

I wonder if this is the universal feeling of life without T because this is pretty much how I feel, the only time I am hap

py is when I am drowsy and I am hoping I die in my sleep

Some of the posted "feelings" & your apparent attitude suggests you may 'need' some sort of therapy. Loss of Testosterone causes most men to get depressed, feel lousy, not sleep, have no interest in the things that fueled their youth (activities, hobbies, social). Your posted age is a little young for having "T" reduction, unless you had a birth-defect, or some trauma - damage to the testicles. Are you castrated, wishing not?

As posted in other strings, I have had to deal with natural loss of hormones.

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... #post98177

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... post105097

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... post111664

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... post111664

If you don't like "putting chemicals" in your body, are you 'all natural'? Do you have bad habits (smoking, drinking, fast-food)? Your body is nothing but chemicals, after you subtract the 90+% saline it's supposed to be. Your body isn't going to recognize how it gets it's needed chemicals either. If by stating you don't like to ingest chemicals, in-as-much to mean; staying away from the Pharmaceuticals and man-made...congratulations. I like to think I'm 'all-natural', but I have a few bad habits.

There are a lot of alternate therapies, from all natural sources (which includes vitamins and minerals, and plant extracts), that will help 'normalize' your day-to-day living, and bring you back to a brighter out-look on life; and they don't cost a fortune. Might even improve your love-life, if you want one.

Chemicals come from everywhere, and we can't help but ingest some of them, in today's world. Being overly aware, or concerned isn't going to change the inevitable. We must try to do the best we can, and learn better. There is a lot of good and interesting, thought-provoking information found on this site. Hope you feel better soon.

This is from a previous post (#post98177);

There is more to 'desire' than sex or abilities to have sex. The body needs certain hormones to function normally, and in men, most are governed 1st by "T" produced in the testicles, secondly by other glands all over the body system. Most $-conscious physicians go the Pharmaceutical route with shots and patches due to kick-backs from the manufacturer. (Yes, I'm a cynic,..mostly due to what I've learned in the last couple of years since meeting my present physician.)

I too suffer from hypogonadism. Mine was caused probably from undescended testicles, chicken pox and mumps. I had the testicle-drop op in the 1st grade. I lost sexual desire and abilities (impotence) in my 30's. Most men experience this much later in life.

I suffered for years before getting the courage to ask about it.

My physician is also a Naturopath and suggested Pregnenolone 10mg / day. I don't have an employer paying health insurance for me, and I assumed expensive Testosterone 'therapy' was my only recourse. He said, no, he'd suggest it to anyone experiencing the aging process (and also in addition to "T" therapy, if waranted). Pregnenolone is a neurosteroid that's produced by the younger body. It converts to Progesterones that are used to produce various natural hormones. (The body has a lot of 'back-up' factories that'll take over if given the right boost.)

The nice thing about Pregnenolone is that it is an OTC (over-the-counter) item and cheap comparable to "T".

I get mine from Wonder Labs on-line for $5.40 US. One bottle lasts for 4 months. Bargain compared to "T" shots. http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=0901

It took about 2 weeks to notice any real difference in life-desire, moods etc., but now I feel like going about the day like I did when I was in my 20's (I'm 50). I want to do yard work and activities I love, like my horses. Before, all I felt like doing was sleeping all the time, and grudgingly went about the day, hating everything, even eating, because it meant I'd have to wash dishes, or wait for it to cook. I was a mess. I was loosing body-mass and tone, and that made the moods worse (I'm quite narcissistic). I do not have extreme sexual urges, but some of 'that' desire is back. It doesn't 'rule me', like when I was 20-something. I don't mind being touched now. I can relate physically when I want to, and respond to someone when needed.

I have studied a lot since first taking Pregnenolone, and there is a lot of things one can do without taking shots. A few examples are;

Horny Goat Weed, herb, (Epimedium sagittatum) = desire, not just sex, daily outlook too.

L-Arginine (amino acid) = natural Viagra taken 1-3 times a day.

Long Jack, herb, (Eurycoma longifolia root) = puts lead back in your pencil, and can cause hot-flashes and night-sweats when you quit taking it. I can testify, it WORKS!!! (I get it from Vitamin World in a formulation called "Natural V for Men") I can get 'morning-wood' now. http://vitaminworld.com search for 'Natural V'.

Tribulus terrestris, herb (fruit) = aphrodisiac, sexual desire, BAM!!

I know everyone is built differently and not everything works the same for everyone else, AND not everyone has the same goals, etc., just thought I'd share my experiences.

The Pregnenolone has been wonderful. I feel like having company again. Before, I was a grumpy hermit.

artisticlicense (imported) wrote: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:29 am

notalife (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:32 pm I wonder if this is the universal feeling of life without T because this is pretty much how I feel, the only time I am happy is when

I am drowsy and I am hoping I die in my sleep

This isnt just low T talking. This is depression - serious levels. Please see a doctor and consider use of an antidepressant if HRT doesn't work for you. The kinds of experience you report can be lethal. Death is a long term solution to a short term problem. Use the solutions that are available to you. Don't just complain, ACT!

This is just my own two cents worth so take it for what its worth. I don't buy into the herbal stuff because its not regulated nor tested for safety or effectiveness. For example - A man with ED who can't get erect because he takes BP meds can take an herbal that gives him an erection and be patting himself on the back but the "way" the herbal works (At least in one case) is to raise the patients bp to insane (unsafe) levels. So the guy with BP problems now has a stroke because he has hyper high levels. How dumb is this?

Doctors don't make money (At least not directly) by prescribing a particular drug. They (try to) protect their patients by using drugs that are known and are safe. If they start dabbling with unknowns they open them selves to (more) lawsuits then usual.

To Echo Sister K - People without testicles can also be people who are just depressed. However "some" have symptoms that look like depression because they have hormone issues. Get on HRT and find the right dose. If you still have issues SEEK HELP! Its possible to have both problems.