I've already posted something about this on my blog. Basically, I'm really upset that things won't turn out at all well. I never thought I'd post this earlier until Plix responded with very kind words to the blog post.

I didn't want to post because it clearly shows that sometimes my mind is in a turmoil and I have difficulty dealing with things! Generally, I have been very happy since I started Androcur Nov 2, 2007. Usually, I'm emotionally and psychologically sound. Really! Actually, it's the fact that I've never experienced such happiness (and I'm not referring to the over-happy, painful mania I get now and then) that tells me I'm heading in the right direction.

None of these things are true tonight and I absolutely hate admitting this in public, at least so blatantly. I've gotten much more comfortable with less blatant!

I don't like to reveal any weakness. This goes back to my childhood. Any expression that I was in any way different from all the other boys was totally unacceptable to my father. Being different was being weak. Just saying 'Dad, I'm different from all the other boys' got me a stern reprimand of 'No, don't ever say that, you're exactly like all the boys.'

If Plix (and DonFL) hadn't written a response to my blog postand shown concern, this post wouldn't be here and we'd all be much happier!

I'm going to say some things now that I haven't before. I've strongly hinted that I now feel that I may be male to female. Truth is, I now feel that this is absolutely true.

I want to make something very clear here. When I started Androcur I didn't feel this way at all and simply felt not male. That was sufficient and I was happy. I cannot thank enough those like Jesus and Kristoff who have provided me invaluable help in increasing my understanding of who I am. They got me started down this road and continue to be terrific, as have many other on the Archive.

It's because of this understanding and encouragement, that I've felt even more confident in being who I am. It's just now I'm finding who I am is male to female. As the weeks have gone by, my emotions have changed just as many have reported with chemical castration. Mine just went off in a direction I hadn't planned on. I didn't want to believe it at first. This M2F gender is now extremely clear to me. Perhaps that is M2Female Eunuch?

In the past, I've often gone in directions that therapists, for instance, didn't recommend. In the end, they realized I actually knew what I was doing and they got it. I am very capable of determining what is best for me.

What concerns me is that I wasn't clear enough on this when I met with the university endocrinologist this morning. I'm on a high dose of prednisone for an asthma attack. Prednisone causes some depression. That's what I was feeling this morning along with being generally out of it, not being able to breathe well, things like that.

I'm very upset that the endo feels the need (although perhaps this is standard procedure) to talk with her staff before giving me estrogen. She needs to do this for 'harm reduction'. Is the problem that I wasn't clear enough on male to female? I didn't state I would go for SRS. The most upsetting part is that her staff won't meet until March and I won't see the endo again until April!

The jumbled thoughts going through my brain tonight are things like: I won't get any estrogen, there's no hope, there's no use telling anyone else I'm transgender because nothing will ever happen, I might as well quit the program at the U. Generally, I haven't felt this way at all.

Here is what I was going to post on my blog in response to Plix's response (so you will see I mention his name several times):

My thoughts are a bit jumbled on the visit because I'm upset about it. When I saw her I was feeling out of it from the prednisone I'm on for an asthma attack. I felt when I was with her that I wasn't as clearly stating my case as I usually do. I clearly told her I realized I had never been gay and I'm almost 95% certain I told her I now knew I was female. [I had not intended to go into this on the Archive yet, but that's OK ] I explained how open I'd been at work and elsewhere about being transgender. I said I wanted breasts. I even described last night's fireworks sex experience, something I've never had before in my life. I did not commit to SRS but did not go into an explanation for why. There are many transsexual women who do not go through SRS. Some can't afford it.

I was totally honest about earlier self-harming behavior and how that had immediately stopped after I started treatment at the U. I knew I was becoming the real me.

I definitely said I had no concern about retaining any erectile function. She'd questioned me on this because she said some clients thought this was something that could be easily accomplished.

I was slightly concerned about getting breasts that would be too large! She said they could make some adjustments to the dose but it certainly isn't an exact science.

We even got to the point that she explained she'd recommend the estroderm patch for me. She prefers the patch over the injection because it maintains a more constant level of E.

Now that I think about it, I think a big conern for her was my father's having had multiple heart attacks and strokes. I wish I'd told her my father had been a heavy smoker. She does know that I never smoked.

She does want to do a lipid profile after I've been on the spiro for 2 - 3 weeks, along with other tests including T. I've had a history of high triglycerides but those have been under control for years with medication. She doesn't want me to have more than three alcoholic drinks a week, because they can raise lipids.

We talked about the increased risk for clotting, breast cancer, etc. I answered that I was so glad to finally have found myself that I'd accept the risks. It seems to me this last statement would have made it clear I was saying I was female. Yes, she did ask about surgery and I said I didn't know about SRS but possibly castration. She responded that castration would make the amount of E needed less and lower the risks she's concerned about.

I feel like I royally screwed up this visit, which I've waited at least 6 weeks for.

If the U doesn't approve this, there is no place else that will and I'm not feeling at all confident that things will then work out.

My gender therapist had said I was free to experiment with hormones in any way I wanted to figure things out. I've got to assume she's familiar with the way the medical department views these things. She of course knew that the endo would want me to switch me from Androcur to spironolactone. I do really feel female now and I haven't wanted to bluntly discuss this here, yet. I've hinted at it quite strongly, though, in posts.

Tonight has been a more intense experience than I had when I thought I'd have to go back to my male self because of the osteoporosis diagnosis. I've spent a lot of time crying.

I wanted to write more on this on the Archive but I feel like I'm being weak and irrational and I don't like people to see that (see, I can be really foolish sometimes). I also don't like feeling that I need other people - really dumb - the fact is I do need the people on the Archive. I'm supposed to be always strong and psychologically together. No room for any self-doubt or hint of anxiety here. I am in fact generally psychologically sound though, which is what has been so great through all this. I just don't feel at all that way tonight.

Right now, I don't have a good feeling about any of this. I've felt terrific about telling people who I am at work and elsewhere. I have told several in the last week that I'd finally figured out I am MtoF. Tonight, though, I feel like 'what's the use' nothing will ever come of all this. I don't want to tell anyone else now. It just doesn't matter.

Despite the doom and gloom I'm expressing here, I'm hopeful that tomorrow I'll recover with the help of exercise and relaxation. I'm determined not to let this get me down but tonight I just have to muddle through.

I will see my gender therapist Monday and discuss all this with her. Right now, I feel like I may just drop out of the program. I absolutely hate writing these things! I'm letting people see way too much of the turmoil I occasionally experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset with you, Plix, or anyone else. In a way, these are the kinds of things I intended to write in a thread but didn't have the nerve to do. So, Plix, you've helped me do that and I think it will turn out to be a good thing.

I'm just emotionally worn out and I need to be gentle with myself.

-Danya

As usual, soaking in a relaxing tub of hot water helped clear my head. It helped me quite a bit to rant here and I feel a lot better.

What I need to keep in mind right now is that I'm sick (cold) with asthma being treated with prednisone. Prednisone makes Danya a little depressed and hyper. Things don't always make the best sense under these conditions. There, it's really very easy when I look at it that way.

With those things in mind, I can see that things will work out in the end. I just need patience.

I'll stay home from work Tuesday, rest, call the pulmonologist to let him know that the current dose of prednisone isn't helping (oh, goody, I'll get to take more and be more hyper and depressed - it's only temporary so I can deal with it) and go pick up the spironolactone prescription. I'll also call my shrink to get something to help control the hyper feelings. It's really a very simple plan. It's got real potential!

My asthma can be a real pain in the ass. Fortunately, when I'm not having an attack, it's like I've got asthma amnesia and I forget that I've ever had breathing problems.

-Danya

My opinion from my limited experience with endocrinologists is that they use "sex hormones" very conservatively. I think she is just being cautious. --FLO--

Dear Danya,

Do I have a list: Well that's how I was going to write this post and did. But, I read it and my emotions jumped in and said I was just being a man in my response. So here the revised more feminine me.

I'm glad you got a hot bath, and if your like me a good cry. It well work out. It might take a little more time than you wanted but being female or male or eunuch is mostly in our heads.

I wish I knew where I wanted to end up on my journey, I think your lucky in that you've discovered who you are and where you want to go. (we're not even talking about the strength to actually start to do something about it, your a doer, not a wish I was'er)

If you end up half as good looking as you are (already) beautiful the world well be a better place. All that's important in life is friendships and love ones. I know from your post that your a person who would be a loving friend, as I see it, there's nothing better in life.

Now a little of the male side of me, I agree with Flo, give them a chance. They want to help you. They just don't have the "urgency" that you have. Just keep plugging along, it well happen.

Love Pauline.

I hoped that I was wrong, and now that I have more information, I am almost 100% certain that I was.

One thing you will learn about me is that I have a tendency to speculate on just about everything well before I have anywhere near enough information to have the right to speculate. I also tend to speculate the worst when I do speculate, and as I continue my history in my blog, the reasons for this should become clear.

First of all, now that I think about it, I do not think she would have even given you Spiro if she were not willing to do E for reasons other than health. So the Spiro is definitely a good sign.

I had not realized that you told them you now identify as female. Had I known that, I certainly would not have considered what I said. I had just assumed that you only told them what you have told us, that you are not sure where you fit in.

I also did not realize the extent of your health problems or your family history.

Just like you say, I am very confident now that she is just being cautious about your health. Sex hormones are nothing to take lightly, as they do carry a number of serious and potentially deadly health risks. And while doctor supervision is always smart and can reduce the risk of problems, even a doctor cannot guarantee you will not develop any serious complications as a result of taking E.

If you are not willing to DIY (which given your age and health, I would strongly recommend that you do not), then patience is really going to be your only option. Patience is hard. Anyone who knows me can tell you I know just how hard it is. I am one of the most impatient people you could ever know. But sometimes patience is necessary, especially when it is something you really want more than anything else. It does pay off

Hopefully your endo understands that non-oral methods carry significantly less risk and are commonly used in older people and in people with health problems. If not, there are so many other doctors out there who do. I am probably wrong, but AFAIK the only two absolute contraindications to E therapy are breast cancer and a previous blood clot. The others are relative.

So I hope I have made you feel a little bit better, and I certainly never meant to upset you

It is going to work out. You just have to be patient

*Hugs*

Plix,

You never upset me. I was already upset when I posted the blog entry. Like you, and especially when I'm drugs like prednisone which cause my mind to race, I do far too much speculating and second-guessing of things I've said and the impact I may have had.

I was expressing my feelings about the visit and in this post I'd pasted in what was going to be my reply to you in the blog. I'd already written it and pasting was easier than rewriting an entire post!

I don't think anyone on this site has ever upset me, even those occasional misguided souls who disagree with me . Totally kidding here, just trying to show that my sense of humor is back in full force today. There are certainly those who disagree and I have absolutely no problem with that. Everyone is helpful and caring. In addition, I (and I know this is difficult for many to believe ) don't always have all the answers. Even about my own situation. And that includes things in this post.

Some point soon I will discuss why I've come to the male to female conclusion, which I've more or less already stated or made strong hints about in other posts. The fact is, I still don't know exactly what this means for me or what the end result will look like. I don't mean here how beautiful I will be! Of course, I will be gorgeous!

Just kidding. It's entirely possible I can fully express this female identity within a eunuch ID where there are not huge changes to my body. I'm still working through all this. I'm trying to reconcile some conflicting ideas. But it's all good.

OK, I can't resist this expanding on this now. As I am not bothered by questions or disagreement, I welcome comments that challenge my thinking. The truth is, I like a good argument . I will warn folks, though, that I have put a tremendous amount of thought into this, read lots of things all over the net on TG issues and have had a number of recent personal experiences that confirm my conclusion. Besides, you may have noticed that I'm very verbal. I have to resist a tendency to talk people to death. so they don't just give up from exasperation.

I'm not going to delve much into those childhood experiences I've already discussed elsewhere that were gender discordant. Nor am I going to discuss others right now. I'll just say that my conclusion that I am male to female finally makes everything in my life make sense. Male to eunuch helps but to me is inadequate to explain my life, at least without some adjustments. Now, if there is a type of female eunuch expression I may go for that.

However that male to female (eunuch?) identity is expressed is another issue, although I very much hope some hormones will be part of it.

Pauline resisted the urge to write a list. I'm not that strong so that is exactly what I'm going to do. It's part of the scientist in me and lists can be easier to understand than prose.

1. Just keep in mind some of the childhood stuff I've already mentioned like 'if girls don't have to do that, I'm not going to either.'

2. I was totally horrified with puberty. I did everything possible to hide what it was doing to my body.

3. I've had an intense physical attraction to men since I can remember. Until a therapist suggested scoping out the guys and seeing how I felt (when I was about to come out as gay in my early 40's), however, I'd never gotten a spontaneous erection looking at men. Even after the therapist's suggestion, I more or less had to will my erection to occur.

4. I'm not physically attracted to women

5. I identified as a gay male after a 20 year marriage to a woman. I've pointed out elsewhere that some transsexuals try to deal with their gender dysphoria by adopting a gay ID.

6. I was never able to emotionally connect with gay men and rarely, if ever enjoyed gay sex. I did have lots of gay sex, though, in the first few years after I came out. Please keep this to yourselves - I was more or less a slut for a few years. I know how hard this if to believe but it's true. I was really looking for sexual satisfaction and wasn't finding it.

7. When I started Androcur in November, male to eunuch felt great and I was thrilled when I couldn't ejaculate after 2 hours of effort. I'd finally made it to eunuchhood! Hooray! I was very content to be impotent and feel not male.

8. The 'problem' comes in starting perhaps in December. Despite being chemically castrated, I found that I was feeling increasingly sexual and in ways I'd not felt before. This bothered me at first because I didn't want to feel sexual.

9. I started to accept these new sexual feelings and they became more female-like as time went on. At first I didn't identify these as feminine feelings. What I have felt is the need to be protected and taken care of(sexist!), cherished, showered with jewels (OK, maybe this isn't a requirement), and give myself to a man in the manner I'd seen my ex-wife do with me. I in no way equate this with being a submissive gay male bottom as I've already determined I was never gay.

10. I've recently done things I've never cared at all about in the past. Like mentally undressing the young married guy at the restaurant Saturday while ignoring my good friend. I've always consider this really rude behavior. OK, I was being rude but it was such a new and enjoyable thing I just couldn't help myself. I did apologize to my friend who said he understood. BTW, I've never mentally undressed anyone, male or female, ever before.

11. Just Sunday evening I had explosive sex (despite the chemical castration) with a handsome man who was pushing all the feminine triggers with a lot of finesse. He's dated a lot of trans women. I did not ejaculate although I was erect the whole time without stimulation. This is my first ever sexual experience where my heart and breathing rates increased (body's response to sexual arousal). Not only did they increase, they REALLY increased. At last I was having a normal physiological resopnse to sex. I wanted to be this man's woman. This wasn't a matter of simply wanting to be held. I was attacking his body just as he was mine.

12. So, despite being chemically castrated, I'm more interested in sex than ever but in a very new, different and extremely satisfying way. I can make someone with a sex drive very happy and it turns out I've still got a sex drive myself, only better and different than before. I don't have to orgasm to feel very satisfied.

I have no illusions that if I were to go the extreme of SRS that I'd find a wonderful (and of course hot) man, settle down and live happily ever after. The important thing here is that I find the best way for me to express this identity and in a way that is comfortable while satisfying my needs. I may never find a partner, or at least not a permanent one . That's OK. It's being who I am that brings me great happiness.

-Danya

Uncle Flo and Pauline,

Thanks much for your comments! I agree, Uncle Flo, the doctor is being cautious and this is exactly how it should be.

Pauline, you are very sweet with your comments. I agree that friends and loved ones are the most important things. You are right in that they do want to help at the gender clinic me but I need patience.

As far as being a doer goes, it's taken me a long time to get to this place and I'm very fortunate.

-Danya

Plix,

Danya (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:13 pm I have no illusions that if I were to go the extreme of SRS that I'd find a wonderful (and of course hot) man, settle down and live happily ever after. The important thing here is that I find the best way for me to express this identity and in a way that is comfortable while satisfying my needs. I may never find a partner, or at least not a permanent one . That's OK. It's being who I am that brings me great happiness.

-Danya

Why not? People who are TS get married have the white picket deal all the time. I hope you will be positive about your future - What I mean to say is if thats your bag why not ponder the implications?

You did the married thing once I don't remember if you had kids or not but thats not impossible Mrs T and I have kids that we adopted and love it (and them) Just because we don't share genes? Who cares...

I understand that idea of not wanting to ignore the eunuch part of your life. It can be looked at in any number of ways. I think where you put your mind your butt will follow. At least in my experience. And if its delusion to (for example) feel male when my testicles are long gone in some medical waste bin and the majority of my testosterone is injected into me weekly? I'm happy with the delusion. And really... While a good doctor doing a detailed exam would not be "fooled" by me or a transexual who would make a point about my or they being "fake"? I think it would be picking nits other then to have to admit we are sterile and can't reproduce. In the rest of the ways? The ones that are important? I think people like us are more genuine then Diet Coke! And should be able to live with that expectation of being equal and able to tap into whatever the typical family life is if we want to.

Just a few more thoughts. And I'm glad Plix is like me in speaking out while understanding. Its a trait of people with lots of passon but it can be a headache for guys like me who has a mouth in gear before the motor is running.

MrT,

I appreciate your comments, as usual. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to get married, although I hadn't really thought that far ahead. I'm simply admitting that I'm older at 56 and I may never go all the way through SRS. Fully transitioning is a multi-year process, even when viewed by the hormone part alone. In addition, from the little I've read on SRS, the results can be unsatisfactory, expecially if you're not prepared to shell out $20K or so for a top surgeon. So this could be partly a money issue. It's also that I may never fully identify as female, just mostly so.

Yet there are many men who really don't care if the love of their life has a vagina or not. [BTW, my reference to the 'hot' man was mostly joking. I think anyone you fall in love with will be attractive on many levels.] I've read a lot about this and it amazes me that there are a significant number of men out there who just don't care about this, at least once they start to fall in love. Some even enjoy the difference of the woman who hasn't undergone full SRS and this is viewed by gender therapists as quite normal.

I think it would be absolutely terrific to fall in love with a wonderful man and that could happen. My point was simply that I can still be happy living as my true self even if I am alone. Anything else on top of that is wonderful. BTW, I have lived alone for the last 12 years and don't feel at all lonely. This is healthy.

No, I never had children. I'm not sure at my age I'd want to adopt, but who knows? One thing I'd be concerned about is younger children having older parents who may not be there for them as they approach adulthood.

You continue to surprise me. This is an issue I hadn't even begun to consider.

Plix has some remarkable insights for someone so young

Thanks, good buddy.

-Danya

I'll comment on your reasons one-by-one

1. That sounds like there were definitely some gender issues during childhood. But it is trickier when you are dealing with someone who has identified as a gay male in the past because boys who grow up to become nothing more than gay males are also known for their gender non-conforming behaviors during childhood.

2. This one is likely your strongest. I think feelings about puberty are critical to determining whether a transgender identity does indeed exist. If the person was not uncomfortable with puberty (other than the normal discomfort many adolescents can experience with it), and especially if the person enjoyed puberty, then I believe the transgender identity needs to be called into question. But you hated it, which is a very good sign Me, it wasn't a special thrill for, but I also was never the slightest bit uncomfortable with it. I certainly found some of the effects, such as libido, to be a special thrill.

3. Good, but can also be true for gay men. However, it certainly doesn't hurt your case.

4. Same as 3. Also, some who identify as MtF are attracted to women.

5. Once again, not a guarantee, but doesn't hurt your case either. I certainly know of many MtFs who started out believing they were gay males.

6. Most women can connect very well with gay men on an emotional level. So now I am having serious doubts. OK, I'm just teasing you I know what you mean.

7. Good stuff. Not liking male sexual functioning is definitely a good sign, and the case with most MtFs (those who do enjoy it need to really examine their identities a lot closer). I can't relate at all here. Although I don't mind it taking longer to ejaculate, I certainly don't enjoy the impotence. In fact, I hate it.

8. I also find this very strong, possibly at the same level as number 2. I think most true MtFs will have a libido of some type to some extent when on female hormones. It is not normal for a woman to have no libido, contrary to popular belief. Since you have one off T, I find this to be very helpful to your case.

9. Could be true for a gay male as well. But definitely doesn't hurt.

10. I don't see this making much difference one way or the other, other than the fact that it is a man you are undressing, which doesn't hurt your case. I, as a full male, have certainly done my share of mental undressing in my lifetime.

11. Having a more feminine response to sexual activity is definitely a good sign.

12. This one is how I know for sure I am fully male, and how I am pretty sure you are not. I absoulutely despise the loss of my male libido. For me libido is all in my mind now. And I don't like it at all. I hope to come to at least accept it with time, but I will never be thrilled about it. I will always want that male-type libido back. And since you don't, I consider that a very good sign.

I am so glad that you have made this new discovery about yourself. I find your reasons to overall be pretty convincing, especially 2, 8, and 12. I am anxious to see you start down to path to hopefully becoming your true self, however far you feel you need to go to be comfortable and happy