I was talking to a doctor over the weekend about doing castration.I was told and I quote......

The reason I (we) require a letter from a therapist is that by removing the testicles we will effectively end your ability to have sex/orgasm in the future. This can be a major source of depression and unhappiness for men that do not identify as female identity as they watch their sexual relationships and even their ability to masturbate disappear.....

I must be different...I never had anything disappear except some libido which I didn't notice very much.

I think there needs to be a study of eunuchs to see exactly what does occur after castration.I don't think the medical community has a clue.

Any eunuchs here depressed or unhappy and non functional.??

That is indeed a difficult question to answer.

We have had a fair number of eunuchs who come out of the procedure more happy, more well-balanced than they ever were while they had their testes. We have also had a fair number who have gone through at least a temporary bout of depression while their bodies adjust. Sadly, I can think of a handful of cases where their depression has lasted longer than any 'adjustment period' could account for. There has also been at least one case I know of where the depression was severe enough for the person to take their own life.

I completely agree that this is an area that needs a lot more study, although I am unsure as to how exactly to study such an experience. Voluntary eunuchs may be more common than it would seem on this board, but even if every last one within the US were to be tapped, I'm not sure that would represent a large enough sample size to adequately study without bias. I'm not even sure how one would go about recruiting a large enough group for such research.

I can say that I am a eunuch who does suffer from depression. That is no secret, and definitely not a surprise to anyone who knows me. I do not claim, nor have I ever claimed, that depression is a certainty once a person has been castrated, but it is most definitely something to keep an eye out for. I feel that because of the potential severe depression carries, it is one of the biggest risks a new eunuch faces.

Personally I have absolutely no objections to requiring a therapist letter certifying that the prospective eunuch is fully aware of the consequences of their actions, and is of sound mind in general. I would wholeheartedly support a version of the HBSOC, modified to our relatively unique situation. Unfortunately, the major flaw in such a plan rests among the psychologists/psychiatrists themselves, who seem to immediately label anyone seeking such a transition as unbalanced, merely because they wish to become eunuchs.

If (big if) you can find one of the few psychologists who is open to exploring M2E as a valid option, I wholeheartedly encourage you to open up to them, and hopefully one day soon the entire community will recognize that transition as a valid option for the many people in the world who wish to pursue such a goal.

I'd like to briefly sidetrack to applaud the works of both Jesus and Dr. Wassersug (board name escapes me, if he has one) for their papers, presentations, and other work regarding the voluntary eunuch community. Their work represents one of the best hopes of the EA for having the medical community at large recognize our status, and educating the medical powers-that-be about our situation.

I think that with certain males the removal of testosterone throws other chemical systems in the body into disarray. Perhaps serotonin in the brain or some such chemical is over produced due to the "imbalance" created by the removal of the testosterone. It's just my personal theory as the medical community does not seem to care enough to do any studies. I personally have not experienced the chronic form of depression associated with castration but have had episodes of the acute form. Overall I am one of the extremely happy eunuchs.

Saturday I had a major depression the likes of which I have not had in years. It was triggered by a bad dream of the past. I got through it safely and feel better today. Having not been depressed in a long while it caught me off guard. Post castration depression is rare for me but while under the influence of T I struggled with depression.

The majority of time I would have to say that my emotions are appropriate for what is happening around me. My mother passed away recently and I was very sad. When I am doing something I enjoy I am happy. If I sit around and think too much about life I can feel sorry for myself. I find that for the most times I can redirect my emotions to be positive. Something I was not able to do with T in my system.

So yes I am a happy eunuch with less depression in my life. I am now more comfortable with myself and my place in the world. I have found me.

The question of depression is a very important one, and one that cannot yet be answered properly. Certainly depression is very common among prostate cancer eunuchs. The kind of eunuchs that any physician would be most familiar with. For too many men, their entire sense of self and of masculinity is tied up in their testicles. Even though for PCa patients, castration is done to save their lives (or, at least, to lengthen them), many would rather die than be castrated.

For voluntary eunuchs, the situation is quite different. They are seeking to lose their testicles for any of a variety of reasons. Their sense of self-worth does not require having them.

The Eunuch Archive survey did ask questions about depression among those voluntary eunuchs who took it. What we found was that a slightly lower percentage were depressed after castration than before. Unfortunately, the design of the survey was such that we couldn't track to see whether it was the same or different people who were depressed before and after.

A second round survey is currently being designed to ask questions that the first survey raised or missed. Depression will be studied in greater detail.

Any role of testosterone itself in depression still needs to be properly investigated.

I consider depression to be one of the most severe side effects of castration, chemical or physical.

I have recently re-ordered the side effect list on the Chemical Castration protocol i wrote by % effected and severity:

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12114

I list "moderate to SEVERE suicidal level depression" as the #1 and most dangerous side effect. I know several eunuchs here who have been "gun in mouth" suicidal level depression.

Most here dont get to that level, i myself have "depression cycles" and a constant low level depression that started BEFORE my castration, both chemical and physical. My physical castration has actually made it better.

The rest of the effects are less common, and less life altering.

The 2nd major subsection on side effects are chemical castration's side effects on the liver, this will kill you slowly but you have warnings to stop it. Depression is much more insidious and will kill you faster if you dont catch it before it gets to that point.

Then there is the "less than 2%" side effect list.....

There is some type of depression with all castration. The degree and the type of depression depend greatly on the reason for the castration. Age of the person also weighs greatly in the matter. Depression seems to fall in to two groups from what I noticed form chatting with many.

I think you are hit with sort of a shock or a type of depression when the final cord is cut. The reality of castration hits and you know there is no going back now. No matter how much you have prepared for the day I think you may have a short time of self drought when you ask your self did I really do the right thing. That does pass fast for many of us. That worry/regret passed before I went to bed that night.

I think castration falls into two general classifications.

First the voluntary types:

The first group have very little depression and passes rather fast. They accept being an eunuch and get along with their life happy and content. These are the people that desired castration for many years. They have done their research on the effects and in most cases have been on chemical castration drugs for an extended time. They have lived as a eunuch and know how their body will react as an eunuch.

The second group are castrated but find that it is not what they expected. They got much the effects they wished but also got the side effect. They never really paid attention to side effects or thought they were so strong they could just overcome them and would not be a problem. This is the most over looked part of castration many have. You cannot pick and choose what effect and side effect you will get. You will get all of them to some degree. When the other side effects start to kick in the reality of castration kick in and the eunuch becomes depressed. Now they are faced with unwanted effects, the fantasy of being an eunuch is an reality. This can lead to some deep depression. For many they cannot separate fantasy from reality. Some acted out the fantasy to a disastrous end. They have to find a doctor to prescribe testosterone. Hope that their insurance will cover the expenses. The next problem is to find the correct dose of the hormone and the correct way to receive the hormone. As many threads have mentioned there is problems with each way.

Third group would be the transsexual, transgender. I would not even want to try to explore this area even being part of it.

Involantary Castration

In general, these people will be more depressed because for most people being castrated is about the worst thing that can happen to a man. Being a eunuch takes their strength, their power, manhood and all kinds of things. When something happens to a person against their will they will rebel. In this case become depress.

For many it is a real hard choice they have to make to give consent for castration. This would fall in the medical area cancer, deformity, accidents, hormonal. Often they look back and question their choice. What if I waited. Could it have healed. Seems like they need more time to adjust. Often are very ashamed of being one. Tries to conceal the condition from everyone. Sociality is not very understanding of eunuch’s, yet most of us could know one .

The last group is most likely to suffer long and deep depression. That is the group of people that are forced or talked into castration. They are trying to live a fantasy in many cases. For some it is a life style they want now but may not be the one they want later in life. Once the current relationship is over it may be harder to find a new relationship. The number of people looking for a eunuch in the dating rooms is not good. So, the chances of finding a partner later in life will be greatly reduce.

·Guys that think they can be a better slave.

·Will make them more submissive.

·Doing to win someone affection.

·Will make them more feminine

·Wanting to look younger

·To keep being a boy

·Eunuch calmThere are far more to the list. But you get the idea.

I was castrated by choice, and as far as I can tell castration did not cause, make worse, or improve any of my mental health issues. I had pre-existing mental health issues that I still have, and that have not been affected in any way by castration or hormone types or levels.

I had some unique issues leading to my desire for castration. Chemical castration probably would not have helped stop me, and therapy would likely have had to be intense and long-term, and even then it may not have helped. I did not understand these issues at all then, and while I have developed some understanding of them now, I still have a long way to go.

I am partially regretful of my choice. There are aspects I like, and aspects I dislike.

I have issues with libido and ability, and at times these issues can upset me, but they do not cause clinical depression.

I think bobbie sums the different types of eunuchs and how each type is affected very well. Depression is something that affects each group of eunuchs differently. As bobbie says, involuntary eunuchs are more likely to experience depression, although some regretful voluntary eunuchs can become very depressed too.

Whatever the reason for castration, depression is a potential issue, and one that can be serious. Any new eunuch should be on the lookout for it and have a plan in the event that it develops.

I'm not sure I'm a good example here as I'm only at the beginning of my fourth month on chemical castration. I will say that I wasn't depressed before I started Androcur and I'm still not depressed. I had already been addressing my pre-existing depression, though, and was put on an antidepressant about 9 months ago that for the first time put my life-long depression in remission. This has been verified by psychological testing (late November 07) and my therapist's observations. There's always the possibility that the depression will return. A remission is not a cure.

For two weeks before starting Androcur (and making an appointment with the gender therapist), I was self-harming every evening and drinking 5 -6 beers a night on top of it. Not a good combination. What I think happened is the absence of depression had made my gender issues more apparent (that is, not masked by depression) and I didn't want to deal with them. For that matter, I didn't see there was a way to deal with them. That led to the temporary and uncharacteristic trip down alcoholic lane.

As soon as I started Androcur (November 2) and got an appointment with a gender therapist at the University of Minnesota, I stopped self-harming and my drinking returned to my typical level of a few a week. I had started to take action on my issues and so I was OK again. My situation has remained this way. BTW, I view male to eunuch as a legitimate gender transition, as does my gender therapist.

The problem I have had develop is Bipolar Disorder, although to date I've only experienced the manic end of the spectrum. No grandiose ideas or anything like that. Just feeling so extremely happy that I felt I couldn't contain the emotion. Believe it or not, this is not pleasant after the first few hours (or less).

I suspect I've always been bipolar and that the symptoms have been exacerbated by low testosterone. Hormones imbalances can contribute to bipolar disorder, as can major life changes. I'm certainly experiencing both of these. It's likely I will go on some hormone replacement, perhaps estrogen, and this may help control the mania.

My bipolar condition is under control for now and I'm certain the control will be fine-tuned as time passes. I have yet to experience the opposite end of the bipolar spectrum, depression. That may happen but I'm hopeful that as I continue to positively address my gender issues, and get some form of hormone replacement, the depression will not return or only in a mild form.

So there is the undesirable and unpleasant happiness when I'm manic (which can be controlled). When I'm reacting normally (and that's the large majority of the time), I am for the first time in my life consistently happy and not depressed from day to day. I never would have imagined that I could reach this state and I am very thankful for it. I don't think there are many people that are this fortunate.

There are so many signs that I'm on the right path. I'm really lucky to have reached this point in my life.

I have no intention of being castrated until I feel I am ready. I'm not there yet. Even when I am ready, I can certainly believe that the finality of the surgery will have an emotional impact. I'm confident that I will be able to deal with that.

-Danya

Lots of awesome thinking exhibited in this thread, with many good observations and experiences noted. Thank you all. I've stuck the thread so it will appear near the top of its category, so more people will likely see it, especially in the future. I also stuck DonFL's side effect thread.