Thank you slammr. I still really like that poem, though I'd forgotten how depressing it is (especially when printed white out of blue!)

Gotta go. A friend's just phoned with a spyware problem.

(I'll post the list soon)

NEW:

Sorry, I'm updating this post. What I am going to do is post a list that includes every novel/story/text/other we have mentioned in this strand. I will sub-divide them pretty much as followes:

1. "Definite eunuch stories"

2. "Some eunuch involvement"

3. "Mentions of eunuchs"

4. "Slightly eunuch"

5. "Non-eunuch but apposite"

6. Mentioned in posts, but not eunuch stories.

I intend to give a brief synopsis of each story/novel with each title, but I am not sure about whether or not this will put excessive demands on my time and my back. I also hope to mention the original poster with each entry. But, again, this is quite a big undertaking.

Most likely, the first version of the post will simply be titles and authors under the categories I have just mentioned. I can then edit it and expand it. Now, a few words of warning. Like most people, I am not especially efficient (unless I am being paid good money). It is quite possible that I will miss a post or two. So, if you are not mentioned, or the story you mentioned is not included in the list, please don't be offended. I will NOT exclude anyone. Why would I? I have no reason to. But please accept the fact that I am human (I think) and I'm doing this for fun. Anyone who feels that I have missed them out, or under-represented them or their information, may post on this strand and I will sort this out.

I don't know of any other list of castration in fiction books. I am happy to make this list, but it will be so much better if you help me to make it a good one.

Okay?

Class dismissed. And thanks.

Bye

Nicky.

(PS. Sorry, Slammr, to usurp my reply to you about your post. Inelegant and ill-mannered, but that's me. I really did appreciate you posting the Lowell poem. It was kind of you.

N)

OLD CARTOON SERIES FROM A GIRLIE MAG

On a completely different subject, I've just had one of those moments when you suddenly remember something you hadn't thought about in many a year. It's as follows:

When I was a kid, my best friend and I used to go through our respective parents' porno-mags for a bit of adolescent fun. I now remember that one magazine had an ongoing series written as a cartoon-story (strip-cartoon, cartoon-strip, whatever). I don't remember what it was all about, but I do remember that the girl ends up in a harem (bit like good old Sergeanne Golan we talked about above) and someone was sent in to find her. Unfortunately for the someone, he had to give up his testicles in order to become a eunuch-spy. I distinctly remember a picture in the cartoon in which the newly-castrated spy has to show his eunuchism to the sultan before he is hired. He looks down at his groin, and a bubble containing the expression "Sigh!" emanates from his head (sadly, this is a view from behind, so we don't actually see anything).

I seem to remember that this cartoon series was published in the British magazine "Men Only", possibly in the late 1970s. Men Only is still a Paul Raymond publication (a kind of softer version of "Hustler"). If members would like, I am more than happy to write to them and ask them if they still have any old copies, or even if anyone remembers it.

And where did I have this sudden remembrance of porno past? I was on the toilet. Where else?

What I would like to know is this: how on earth did something I haven't thought about since I was a child suddenly pop into my head? I wasn't even thinking about eunuchs at the time, nor cartoons. Nor was I thinking of accessing this site. I was actually thinking about my friend's problematic computer and how I had to give him a solution down the phone and guide him through every step - not very easy since his system is different to mine. What's more, my last few posts have been literary, and this cartoon was anything but literary, so there's no connection here. The only possible explanation was that I was in a slightly elevated state of consciousness, not because of drugs (I don't do anything stronger than quality wine and the all-too-occassional tobacco-cigarette), but because of the battle my pal and I had just won to get his computer working again - adrenaline, presumably, was in my blood-stream, and maybe that affected my brain-chemistry.

As with dreams, most memory-retrieval is prompted by outside stimulus or "triggers"; (e.g.: the scent of an apple pie can evoke/"trigger" memories of childhood, and so on). Similarly, dreams are usually inspired by images/emotions one has experienced in the recent past (e.g., after a long car-journey, I often dream I am driving). That's why dreams never actually mean anything. They're the brain's way of processing all the information that has been in-putted into it. Obviously, I am being simplistic, but the rule about "triggers" does seem to stand up (and I am not talking about psychotics here, or even heavy neurotics - that's a very different kettle of fish).

But where did this old memory spring up from? I tried to track down anything that could have brought it back to the surface (any "triggers"). Had I been looking at cartoons? Yes, but I look at cartoons all the time (my favourite being "Fairly Odd Parents" if you really want to know - bloody clever and a helluva lot more fun than Faulkner or Bob Lowell). Alternatively, maybe my friend's problems with his computer (which I have been helping him with) was a metaphor for male impotence, and my subconscious regurgitated the cartoon as a bizarre self-defence/associative-memory mechanism. Except that we fixed the computer, so that is male success, not male impotence. What is even more odd is that I can see that particular picture I just mentioned, in my mind, as clear as if it were before me. The sultan is resting his head on his clenched fist, a few girls are gazing at the eunuch in astonishment, and the eunuch-spy has his head lowered as he gazes at his, er, genital (as opposed to genitals). His hair is curly, and he has very tight buttocks.

Oh well.

Bye,

Nicky

SquireEWorm

Anna Gavalda stories

Any chance you can give me the title of the book and the story in French?

I need it for my list.

Bye,

Nick

Ages ago, Kelly2 mentioned something about Satyricon by Petronius and how he tried to cut off his own weener, but it had shriunk so much that he couldn't find it.

Well, apparently some of the boys who were "gelded" for the harems were not actually cut at all. In their terror, the boys' testicles and penises would shrink so much that there was nothing available to cut.

Hence, when they were in a safer place, they poluted the sultan's blood-line.

Sweet revenge, eh?

Nicky

Okay. Let's do this thing:

THE LIST

This is the first version. Now that I have realized just what a large task this is, I'm going to post it bit-by-bit, and edit it as my energy allows and my back permits).

So. here are all the titles we have discussed:

THE NOVELS

"The Alteration" by Kingsley Amis

(Catholic priests want a modern castrato. Strangely enough, the boy runs away. I wonder why? - crap novel by crap writer: my opinion only; you might luv 'im.)

"The Magus" by John Fowles

Nasty Nazi torture around page 550. Over-rated rubbish by an over-rated writer (my opinion again)

"River God" by Wilbur Smith

(old eunuch gets his kit out in the Nile.) (I believe there is a sequel or a prequel - isn't there one called "The Sun God"?). Wilbur used to be a hero of mine until he came into the office wearing those dreadful spectacles - (I used to market his books).

Angelique novels by Sergeanne Golan (series)

Husband and wife team-up as writers. He's Serge. She's Anne. Hence Sergeanne. He's dead (now). God knows what she's doing - living off the royalties, hopefully.

(Novel: "Angelique and the Sultan")

(Big breasted bimbo bursts out all over the place, and choppers come a cropper - roughly 9 -15 novels in this series, depending on which languages you can read)

"Je veux une personne m'est quelquepart attender..." (or something like that - don't ask me. My French is school)

"I wish someone were waiting for me somewhere"

From the French by Anna Gavalda (Lovely title)

"Cat Gut" is the story

(Don't go to the lady-vets)

But, as with all your French, the body is all. Read your Gide.

Orson Scott Card

"Hart's Hope" (brutal criminal punishment)

"Songmaster" (chemical interference keeps all well - but would it be kinder to cut them off? - Like, no, duh!)

Alvin Maker series (mentions of eunuchs)

"Seventh Son" (mentions of eunuchs)

"Red Prophet" (mentions of eunuchs)

("Songmaster" seems to be the most eunuchy - choir boys, apparently. But, with a title that is "Songmaster", I guess that's no surprise.)

It does seem to me that Orson Scott Card has a very serious problem.

"The Persian Boy" by Mary Renault

(Beautiful boy is cut for Alexander the Great - the best eunuch novel ever, and possibly the only one)

"The Women at the Pump" by Knut Hamsun (Oh, if only the novel had been entitled "The Women and the Pimp"!)

(Shipping accident leads to strangely-coloured kiddies in Norway - intellectual and dull - bit like Norway.)

Karelescu (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:49 pm "Elric of Melnibone" by Michael Moorcock

(

Prisoner loses all during interrogation - short and to the point, and somewhere around page 119 - but don't rely on me for that)

"The Scorpion God" by William Golding

(Ancient Egyptian boy-prince wants to be de-nutted. Nobel prize-winner shows why he shouldn't have got the prize - unrelentingly Britishly depressing and lifeless. This guy makes words sink like stones.) Two other stories in this collection of novellae - all aweful (in my opinion)

Marquis de Sade:

"Juliette"

"Justine"

"120 Days of Sodom"

(Everything happens to everyone - still the master of sadistic erotic porn - "Juliette" is my recommendation - but get the sick-bag ready, and don't try this at home!)

"Jill" by Philip Larkin (peer-tease castration-threat-novel written by an over-rated crap-poet - my opinion only)

"Vathek" by William Beckford - a very strange 19 Century man writes a very strange book. Eunuchs are mentioned. I never succeeded in reading this all the way through. I couldn't cope with his over-punctuation. And he never finished it. It was completed by Clarke Ashton Smith.

"Less Than Zero" by Brett Easton Ellis (0ff-stage snuff-movie cutting). If you want snuff, read his next book "American Pycho". Nasty stuff, so avoid.

"Forever Amber" by Kathleen Wilson (threatened castration). Proper synopsis needed, please)

"The Black Rose" by (?) - not enough info for this one

"The World According to Garp" by John Irving

Lots of talk of genital woundings, plus a few real ones. I haven't read the book. Nor have I seen the film, but it sounds worth a read - Paolo reckons the book is better than the film, and I expect he's right. Otherwise, novel is mainly American suburbia, from what I can gather.

Paolo posted this, below: "Actually, 'Garp' has more than a few passing mentions of genital happenings:

"John Lithgow steals the scenes as Roberta Muldoon, a famous retired NFL player who has fully gone MTF. Roberta is Garp's mom's best friend and bodyguard, as well as favorite playmate to Garp's two young sons. Roberta longs to have children, but can't legally adopt.

"Near the beginning of the film, some boys at the boarding school are nearly caught with a Playboy magazine, and hide it in baby Garp's crib. Garp, all of 1 or 2, won't give it back to his mother, Jenny, who is the boarding school nurse. She threatens the boy who had the magazine with - "I will innoculate your jockstrap with bubonic plaque, and it'll do such a number on you that you won't even have anything left down there to scratch."

"Right before that, a boy reports to the Infirmary with his foreskin caught in his zipper. Jenny's advice, after yanking it free - 'Leave it alone for a few days.'

"As for the accident, the one who gets de-cocked is a college boy, to whom Garp's wife is giving head in his car in the driveway. Garp comes racing in and rear-ends the car. One son loses an eye, one dies, and Garp and Wifey are badly injured.

"At Jenny's retreat for women, Garp mentions cutting his penis off and wearing it around his neck to protest rape (sarcasm). Several women agree.

"By the way, the book is much better than the movie, which is not out on DVD yet."

From Paolo. And thank you, Paolo.

"Gravity's Rainbow" by Thomas Pynchon

(mixed-up army-cut) - More information please

"Dr Addler" by K.W. Jeter

(vagina dentata - nice! - and remember the Sc-Fi novel I mentioned with the alien girl who had green hair and bit pricks off during sex? - not this novel, by the way) More information please.

"Pilgerman" by Russell Hoban

Well, it's by Russ. Probably the greatest imaginative British novelist alive. Very underestimated in the UK and the USA. He's a cross between Wordsworth, William Blake and Batman comics (with a bit of Salvador Dali thrown in). He's not the easiest of people I dealt with when I worked in publishing, but I always believed in his extraordinary work. I won't list them here. You go and look if you want real fantasy without a git who wears glasses and is called Harry Tosser. As for Pilgerman: women rule. You all really ought to read this guy. He's fantastic. But "Pilgerman" is not his best. Try others. No castrations, just a fantastic mind at work. Of all British novelists, he is the best aliv

SquirmEWorm (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:45 pm e. Absolutely and unreservedly. So

there. In my opinion).

"Regiment of Women" by Thomas Berenger

(Women rule again - as if!) - More information please.

"Farnham's Freehold" by Robert Heinlein.

One of the great SF classics, though I personally prefer "Stranger in a Strange Land" which is his masterpiece (so I am told). As for this:

"Get cut to get on, but don't stay with Mom".

May I please have a really good synopsis for this book, preferably with mentions to other Heinlein novels? And what ever happened to Robert Silverberg? Did it end "At Winter's End"?

"Running Blind" by Desmond Bagley. An old thriller which includes castration-revenge in Iceland. Iceland? Oh for feck's sake! (No wonder no one ever filmed it). Good fun, but dated. But has superb descriptions of the Icelandic wildernesses. Worth reading for those alone.

"The Hall of the Mountain King" by Judith Tar

(Prince becomes girl for political reasons - in Book 3 - and I am sorry, but I still can't remember the title). I've just checked with Amazon and the book you want is "A Fall of Princes" - that's the eunuch one. Apparently, it is in print, but I wouldn't bother. I've read it. Her prose is turdy.

"Darkest Orient" by Riza Bey

(something for the girls) - I would like more info on this one.

"Erebus" by Shaun Hutson

(nasty scrotum-play leads to hell on earth - as is usual with Shaun)

"Jandar of Callisto" by Lin Carter. The late, great pioneer of Fantasy novels (who wrote most of the Conan stories after Robert E Howard killed himself - helped by L. Sprage de Camp) almost cuts his hero's balls off in this trashy SF load of shite. Fun, though. (But Thongor's better, and has roastie-toastie girls, and enough evil magicians to out-Frodo Frodo. Dolchette girls'll love these)

"The Sun Also Rises" by Hemingway

(old git goes fishing; so what's new?) I'd like a proper synopsis of this, if someone could post it. I hate Hemingway, and I'm not gonna re-read this.

"Falconhurst Saga" (series)

by Kyle Onstott

(Slightly worse that the Forsythe Saga, and probably better - see postings above by Jesus et al)

"First Love, Last Rites" by Ian McEwan. A book of short stories by a prize-winning British writer about which I am trying to get more precise details.

THAT'S THE LIST

THE REST

1. Writers that I couldn't include (this next list contains all the books/stories/writers that were not directly relevant to the above list - most of these were posted by me, so you can skip this):

Raymond Carver

Robert Lowell (Skunk Hour)

William Faulkner

Edward Albee

Tennessee Williams

Ian Fleming

2. Titles I didn't include because they were not eunuch-relevant include:

"Fire from Heaven"

"Last of the Wine"

"The Mask of Apollo"

"The Praise Singer"

"The Charioteer"

"The King Must Die"

"The Bull from the Sea" - all 7 are by Mary Renault and were all mentioned by me, so ignore.

(2a) I also mentioned "The Nature of Alexander" which is a non-fiction biog by Mary Renault. If you really want to know more about Alexander, go to Robert Lane Fox. The book is old (1974?), but it's still the best, and he advised Oliver Stone on his movie.

3. Tennesse Williams plays (again, these have been mentioned, but for the sake of completeness):

Tennesee Williams (lots of plays) especially:

"Sweet Bird of Youth"

"Cat on a Hot Tin Roof"

"A Streetcar called Desire"

"The Glass Menagerie"

"Night of the Iguana"

4. Other novelists/books:

William Faulkner "As I Lay Dying" (which might be better entitled as "As I depressed my readers"). - Oh and don't forget that Steinbeck is something or a Faulkner heir, and the best Faulkner novels are by Cormac McCarthy -"Blood Meridian", "Suttree", "All the Pretty Horses". I am usually very disdainful when it comes to modern fiction, especially Yankie, but Cormac McCarthy is probably the best poetic-imagist since Coleridge. And that's high-praise from me.

(4a) The following by John Irving have been mentioned by Paolo in a post-list post:

"The Cider House Rules"

"Son of the Circus"

"A Prayer for Owen Meaney"

5. We also mentioned:

"Casino Royale" and "Live and Let Die" by Ian Fleming (James Bond books)

"A Gift from Janus" by Christopher Bellows (I am not sure where to post this one). Could I have more information please?

6. And I didn't know what to do with "Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson" by Camille Paglia. It wasn't really for this site, but was interesting just the same, and certainly worth mentioning. But I do wish people like Paglia wouldn't write about Ancient Egypt unless they have understood it and know what they are talking about. Paglia's conclusions about Nefertiti are completely wrong. Akhentan ran a self-image regime and Nef was just a trophy-wife. (And, as with Robert Lowell, don't get me started about Ancient Egypt, because I will never stop). I really get pissed when people come up with these crap theories about Ancient Egypt (in my opinion). And as for Cleopatra...as I said, don't get me started.

7. Other writers who were mentioned included (and I have mentioned them already):

Eugene (Gladstone) O'Neill ("Mourning Becomes Electra" etcetera).

and:

"The Iceman Commeth" (mentioned)

"The Long Day's Journey Into Night" (not mentioned)

8. Ancient writers that were mentioned included:

Catullus (maenadic activity)

"Satyricon" by Petronius

"The Golden Ass" by Apuleius

9. Besides "Erebus", other Shaun Hutson books we mentioned were:

"Renegades"

"Captives"

I think there are at least five to ten more.

10. Other Ancient writers who were not mentioned, but should have been, included Herodotus and Ovid. I am fascinated no-one went for Sappho - oh, do come along, you girls! Buck up!

11. And writers I mentioned in posts that I later deleted for various reasons were as follows:

Clarke Ashton Smith

Robert E. Howard

L. Sprague de Camp

Fletcher Pratt

and James Branch Cabel

12. A new writer to this list is Ian McEwan. Books mentioned includes:

"First Love, Last Rites"

"The Cemment Garden" (incest)

"The Child in Time" (not mentioned)

"The Atonement"

"The Comfort of Strangers"

"The Innocent"

I know the list is disappointingly brief, but considering the fact that this this strand is based on modern fiction novels, I think we've done pretty well. Congratulations, everybody.

CONTRIBUTORS

And here is the list of all who contributed (let me know if you'd rather not be mentioned - or if I've got your ident wrong - OR IF I'VE MISSED YOU OUT!):

Lovey Guest (who started this strand)

Paolo

Kortpeel

Jesus

Highlander Guest

SquireEWorm

Sweetboy

__g

FianceeUvBigGuy

An Onymus

Slammr

Uncle Flo

krista

tjstill

nikdante

Bagoas

Cruel_Girl

Kelly2

A-1

HairyHarry

ENVOI

Remember, I am doing this for fun. If I have missed anyone out, got a novel wrong, fecked-up my spelling or anything else, don't take it personally. Simply post your wishes and I will revise this list. Please be assured that I have no wish to offend anyone. If I've omitted you, it's my fault and is a result of my inefficency. It's nothing personal. And if I have misrepresented any of the texts anyone mentioned, that is down to my lack of knowledge. Again, nothing personal. Just tell me and I will correct the oversight. Okay? Sure? Really sure? Sure you are really sure? Bloody well hope so.

Bye,

Nicky

Karelescu (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:45 pm "The World According to Garp" by John Irving

(Car crash kills kid and unmans dad - and is then fecked by Robin Williams)

More info please

Actually, "Garp"

Karelescu (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:45 pm has more than a few passing mentions of genital happenings:

John Lithgow steals the scenes as Roberta Muldoon, a famous retired NFL player who has fully gone MTF. Roberta is Garp's mom's best friend and bodyguard, as well as favorite playmate to Garp's two young sons. Roberta longs to have children, but can't legally adopt.

Near the beginning of the film, some boys at the boarding school are nearly caught with a Playboy magazine, and hide it in baby Garp's crib. Garp, all of 1 or 2, won't give it back to his mother, Jenny, who is the boarding school nurse. She threatens the boy who had the magazine with - "I will innoculate your jockstrap with bubonic plaque, and it'll do such a number on you that you won't even have anything left down there to scratch."

Right before that, a boy reports to the Infirmary with his foreskin caught in his zipper. Jenny's advice, after yanking it free -

"Leave it alone for a few days."

Karelescu (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:45 pm As for the accident, the one who gets de-cocked is a college boy, to whom Garp's wife is giving head in his car in the driveway. Garp comes racing in and rear-ends the car. One son loses an eye, one dies, and Garp and Wifey are badly injured.

At Jenny's retreat for women, Garp mentions cutting his penis off and wearing it around his neck to protest rape (sarcasm). Several women agree.

By the way, the book is much better than the movie, which is not out on DVD yet.

Addendum :

Fans of Garp will enjoy all of John Irving's lengthy novels, which include THE CIDER HOUSE RULES and SON OF THE CIRCUS, as well as A PRAYER FOR OWEN MEANEY.

Thank you Paolo. This is just the kind of information I want.

Nicky

Dear Bagoas,

I have asked my Professor about the "Prequel" to "As I Lay Dying" and I hope to have some helpful information soon. He is a far finer scholar when it comes to American Literature than I will ever be. If he can't help, he'll know someone I can e-mail. There's no point my asking my Oxford tutor. He's into 14th century poetry.

Happy to help.

Bye,

Nicky

Dear Bagoas,

Re: Faulkner "As I Lay Dying"

This is what my Professor said (former Professor, I suppose I should say):

"I don't believe that any of Faulkner's novels may in any sense be called a prequel. Indeed, the very word "prequel" was not in ordinary use in Faulkner's time.

"I assume that to qualify a work would have the same characters at an earlier time in their lives -- these folk being of comparable importance in the unfolding of plot.

"Faulkner mostly confined himself to locale for his continuities, but shifted from one stratum of society to another, reflecting the rich variety of lives in what was a complex and troubling culture with deep roots in the past.

"Hope this helps."

I hope this helps too. I know we shouldn't really be hijacking this thread to discuss literary matters which a

Karelescu (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:45 pm re not directly relevant to th

is site, but what d'you do? However, my Professor was talking about prequels, not preceding novels. I agree with Bill in that any direct presedence to "As I Lay Dying" has to be psycho-social, not story-wise.

Here are all the Faulkner novels (plus his short stories) in order of publication (but not, necessarily, writing):

Soldier's Pay (1926)

Mosquitoes (1927)

The Sound and the Fury (1929)

Sartoris (1929)

As I Lay Dying (1930)

Sanctuary (1931)

Light in August (1932)

Pylon (1935)

Absalom, Absalom! (1936)

The Unvanquished (1938)

The Wild Palms (1939)

The Hamlet (1940)

Go Down Moses (1942)

Intruder in the Dust (1948)

Knight's Gambit (1949)

Collected Stories (1950)

Requiem for a Nun (1951)

A Fable (1951)

The Town (1957)

The Mansion (1959)

The Reivers (1963)

Mayday (1976)

The Uncollected Stories of William Faulkner (1979)

Vision in Spring (1984)

If there is a story-line that precedes that of Willie in "As I Lay Dying", it should be one of the four books published before it. I'd be very interested to know if you remember which book, my friend.

Bye,

Nicky