SplitDik (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:45 pm Obviously martyrdom DOES satisfy some people's sense of belonging and meaning. .

.More to the point, I think, is that it gets the "martyr" off the hook---his death excuses him from thinking of anything, least of all of justice or mercy or humility. He can pretend that he has never heard of or assigns no authority to Micah 6:8---"What therefore doth the Lord require of thee but that thou do justice, and love mercy, and walk humbly with the Lord." Such "martyrs" also ignore the question of how one walks "humbly with the Lord" as if it had no significance.

.

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:24 am You jest my young friend, People of all faiths are the same, they all believe that their view of religion is right .

. .River, my friend, I think you are very close to the truth here. The one change I would make is to say that, rather than believing that their view is right, they fear that it may be wrong. That is what terrifies them: the fear that they may be wrong. And that terror is the seed of their cruelty.

.

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:57 pm That's because Jews don't think everyone can really even be Jewish.

Many of us who agree that the Jews are "the Chosen People" nevertheless do not agree on just what they were "chosen" to do. The few Jews with whom I have discussed this question have stated point-blank that they think it is not possible for anyone to be converted to Judaism---that Judaism is so very much more a culture than just a religion, (or more a religion than just a culture) and is so complex and detailed that one cannot hope to learn it without being born into it.

My own opinion is that the Jews were chosen to reveal the Word of God to the world, and that while they may not have done that very well, no-one else has done it any better.

I am sure that some "Christians" will vehemently object to this statement, but I assure you in all sincerity that I believe the Jews to be my elder brethren in the faith. Christ is a Jew; I think that my holding any other opinion would be a betrayal of Him. And I consider trust, and betrayal of trust, to be matters of uttermost seriousness.

Patient (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:41 pm Many of us who agree that the Jews are "the Chosen People" nevertheless do not agree on just what they were "chosen" to do. The few Jews with whom I have discussed this question have stated point-blank that they think it is not possible for anyone to be converted to Judaism---that Judaism is so very much more a culture than just a religion, (or more a religion than just a culture) and is so complex and detailed that one cannot hope to learn it without being born into it.

My own opinion is that the Jews were chosen to reveal the Word of God to the world, and that while they may not have done that very well, no-one else has done it any better.

I am sure that some "Christians" will vehemently object to this statement, but I assure you in all sincerity that I believe the Jews to be my elder brethren in the faith. Christ is a Jew; I think that my holding any other opinion would be a betrayal of Him. And I consider trust, and betrayal of trust, to be matters of uttermost seriousness.

I hate to say this but I think that you all still don't get it.

Take a look here (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/manualpart1_1.pdf) and scroll down to the part marked "Presentation".

When we think that WE have THE TRUTH we are basically fundamentalist. Better yet, read the whole damned manual. (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm)

There is no difference between a Christian Fundamentalist and a Muslim Fundamentalist. Read Pat Robertson's remarks (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/robert ... index.html) and then YOU tell ME how I should go about differentiating him and a terrorist .

Fundamentalism breeds hatred, murder and death. Fundamentalim knows no religion. Instead, it knows only EVIL. It is hard for me to think that any religion would be built around these principles. However, fundamentalists use their postion as purported 'holy mouthpieces of GOD' to get the ignorant to do their bidding.

Look what Islam has to say about killing innocents here (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror ... ahhaj.html) and here. (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate ... 9503546442)

Who would Jesus torture? (http://www.libertyforall.net/2005/april17/torture.html)

Read what the American Hindu association has to say about this matter here. (http://www.madison.com/communities/amer ... page_set=0)

What Buddhism says. (http://www.liberationpark.org/bpf/jw_oxy.htm)

Comparitive religion... (http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birod ... ion-1.html)

Fundamentalism is just WRONG. Until we learn tolerance and respect for life, we are in trouble. This goes for Americans, too. WE cannot ridicule a nation by labeling it "Third World" These people are ALL the same as us. They are no better or no worse, regardless of what they believe in the way of religion.

RESPECT is what nations need.

A-1

Hmmm... Thank you, Leona

The Chosen People were chosen as a foundation for morality, ethics, people living in peace among one, another.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/26-4.htm

Never the majority population but, with a lasting effect on jurisprudence per, the Lord's laws.

It is a heavy burden being "chosen". It comes with a conscience far stronger then your average gentile.

Moi

Why are we resurrecting a 10 year old thread? no pun intended. I will let it stand for the moment and see where it goes. My first instinct it to just close it, just so you know where I stand on this. Other moderators may feel the same way and beat me to the close this thread box.

River

You meant that pun, and you know it!

LOL

No really it was just a slip of the tongue, really.

The thread really ended with A-1's observations on fundamentalism, and bp301234 was just saying amen to that comment. There are many endorsements of the notion that bigotry and intolerance may be directed at different objects, but its practitioners are all cut from the same cloth. C.S. Lewis's famous toast from Screwtape in which the demons drink vintage Pharisee, blended of different religious bigots is one where Screwtape observes that some are all petty abstinences from cards, drink or gambling, but the real source of the faith is the wickedness of other faiths and their litany one of denigration of others.

Moi just had to add his two mil's worth. I don't think the thread will continue. A-1 said all that needs to be said in 2005.