What a can of worms.....

If I like the T-girl, it's not because their are missing testicles or not..... If it did I would be just a shallow person, or many other adjectives which are not a nice description of a real person.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:53 pm I suppose the whole thing can be condensed into this little paragraph of yours. We are who we are. It is all a personal choice. There is simply no physical pre-requsites as to our right to be recognised for who we are. Thus...

Estrogen does not make them "more" female, it makes them THINK that. I'm fine if that is their personal choice, but I don't think a choice born out of the possible insecurities of some people should be allowed to dictate who "is" and "isn't" trans.

So no, I will not be considering that option anytime soon, simply because at this stage, I feel no need for it, and more importantly, because it is against my principles with regards to this matter.

I would disagree (to a "degree" ) on the hormone part and agree 100% with you on the physical changes (Surgery etc) point. I think this is only important if it is important to you! No one should have SRS/GRS or whatever cosmetic changes there are out there for someone else or to satisfy someone elses image of what they think you should be.

I disagree on the Estrogen part of you comment only to this extent. I think based on my experience with lack of testosterone and how it makes me feel that its not the same thing. ie it really does rewire things and I mean this not for its physical changes but how it "wires" you to think and how you act. Its so much more about being male or female then I think anyone who hasn't done without could ever believe. Having said this I admit having no experience with trying hormones in the female "mix" so its just an opinion based on my experiences with male hormones. And unlike most people I admit I might be wrong. Anyway, Emily without sounding like a "dope dealer" I think it would be of value to give HRT a trial and see how it works for you. It might be a big nothing but I truly suspect you will find the experience very powerful. The one danger however is that I suspect it could easily be addictive!

_g (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:59 am What a can of worms.....

If I like the T-girl, it's not because their are missing testicles or not..... If it did I would be just a shallow person, or many other adjectives which are not a nice description of a real person.

Ok, but shallow as this might sound if a person fell for someone who was transgendered and was put off by the male "parts" is that totally wrong? By that I mean this. Take a vanilla guy who falls for Miss X and she admits that she was born Mr X. The guy is ok with this but... Not really into the sexual aspect of dealing with male parts in the bedroom. If Miss X is on the road to going through with GRS everything is "cool" but if it means dealing with making love in a way that makes it more like gay sex? Is it "ok" that Mr X says "This is really not my thing and I'm not into that?"

I think its an issue that more couples have to deal with and understanding on both sides is important to them. And by the same token if Miss X wants the Vanilla Marriage and sex life is it "ok" that she wants vanilla male/female sex? Again, I think this is fine and if nothing else makes less demands on each others comfort levels. I'm sure there are people who prefer the non vanilla aspects of such a relationship and I'm not saying thats not valid either.

Snickers is so much easier to talk about!

mrt, I thing you are missing the point of my post. If the T-girl was up front about her status the persons which make her status a big deal either will loss interest or continue developing a relationship.

I'm saying it's the both persons which make relationships work, even if it's for a one night stand, both persons should want that also.

_g

Preferences are just that. The trans woman is going to have her preferences too and she has that right. We are all wired differently and have different tastes, fantasies and desires and it is up to us to find a mate or partner that is compatable.

A guy prefering a trans woman with a penis isn't any different than a woman who wouldn't settle for a mate that wouldn't satisfy her size wise. As long as no one is forced into anything, it just isn't important. If someone doesn't have enough spine to tell someone else that they arn't going to change their life of body for their selfish desire, oh well. Life sucks if you don't speak up for yourself.

Getting back to the title of this thread: I have no preference, apart from the individual not having a beard.

The ability to interact comfortably with someone else, and enjoying life, are my prime aims.

_g (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:46 pm mrt, I thing you are missing the point of my post. If the T-girl was up front about her status the persons which make her status a big deal either will loss interest or continue developing a relationship.

I'm saying it's the both persons which make relationships work, even if it's for a one night stand, both persons should want that also.

_g

I totally get that. And I agree but the person who would get the surgery (or not) has to do it for themselves first and fore most not due to the wishes of others. Ditto Estrogen. Its the person taking it (or not) thats taking the risks and if they don't really want it for themselves its (I think) a really bad idea.

_g (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:59 am What a can of worms.....

If I like the T-girl, it's not because their are missing testicles or not..... If it did I would be just a shallow person, or many other adjectives which are not a nice description of a real person.

I applaude you for your statement. Too many people are a bit too concerned with defending the right to their preference and focus with the physical, and too little are brave enough to call it for what it is: being shallow.

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:17 pm I disagree on the Estrogen part of you comment only to this extent. I think based on my experience with lack of testosterone and how it makes me feel that its not the same thing. ie it really does rewire things and I mean this not for its physical changes but how it "wires" you to think and how you act.

If that is the case, you'd think I would have an identity crisis about what my gender would be? Matter of fact is, I'm a lot more secure about my gender than many transwomen who're on estrogen are. 'Nuff said really.

Sure for some, it helps, but a blanket effect on all transwomen? I don't think so. And thats what I wish more transwomen would realise. Hormones really AREN'T everything, AREN'T the cure-all for EVERYONE. Just because some transwomen find their happiness and validation in hormones do not mean others will too, and sadly what happens when some transwomen find that their lives haven't dramatically improved like they were expecting and hoping once they start hormones? The sad, long downward spiral begins.

I have to admonish you here Mr T, although it'll be a gentle admonishment in case I get automatic snickers bars miniguns pointed my way, that you really shouldn't be pushing me, or indeed, anyone, quite that insistantly towards the hormones path. Could very easily be some young transwoman beginning her journey, she sees your insistance, and she, in her ignorance, or inexperience, or perhaps even desperation, take what you say to be true for all transpeople, and pin all her hopes on hormones. It can very very easily lead to the sort of downward spiral I've mentioned.

Share our experiences, yes, but I think we all need to provide whatever perspective we can, so that people who're lost and are trying to find their way can realise that there are more than one path to salvation.