Re: Castrating Boys And Adolescents
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:06 am
I remember that day! What a shock it was.
The law probably has to have a boundary, but who really knows what the proper limits are?
plix (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:01 pm I've always wondered about this whole maturity thing. Maturity is pretty subjective, I think. There are quite a few choices people of all ages make that a lot of people feel would suggest immaturity, but there are others who see no problems with these choices. So how do we determine what makes a person deserve to be considered mature?
I am not so sure we can judge maturity based on a few actions here and there. Everyone makes stupid choices every once in a while. It doesn't matter how old or mature you are.
Rather, I feel in order to truly judge a person's level of maturity, you need to look at their overall character.
I will agree with you that many young people are immature. I come across college age students daily who are painfully immature, and this immaturity is probably a large part of why I have never associated much with people my own age.
What I cannot agree with is this belief most people have that age automaically equals maturity. I have known many adults in my lifetime who I would consider quite immature, and I have known many children who I felt were more mature than most adults. While age typically equals more life experience, even life experience does not equal maturity. One has to learn from that life experience and grow as a person because of it.
Speaking of me, I haven't hit that magical developmental milestone of age 25 yet, so I am not yet mature. Exactly on my 25th birthday, my brain will finish maturing, and on that day I can instantly expect a rush of maturity to hit me. I am looking forward to it.
cause the testes to start maturing and with it the start of puberty. A course of HRT triggers the testes which then continue producing testosterone as in any other male. What are the results of those that never choose HRT, but instead, choose to remain immature phisically? There is a perfect group to study.YankeeClipper (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:27 pm lack of increase in testosterone from the pituitary gland that
" No. 10 years ago, BtG and GtB was not even on the horizon; MtE was not common, and never discussed. Now all three have become visible. 20 years ago, MtF and FtM were barely tolerated, large invisible, and seldom discussed; now it is visible and most commonly accepted. I don't see it implausible that in 10 hence, we will see BtE as in the same category as BtG and GtB is now. Hopefully sooner.DonK1954 (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:49 pm Well, I can't speak for anyone else, only for myself, but by the time I was 12 I knew for certain I didn't want to grow up sexually. I didn't want a deep voice, or hair on my body, or or a large penis. And I knew enough at that point that I knew having my testicles removed would take care of that for me, so I knew I didn't want them anymore.
You're absolutely right that no doctor would remove a boy's healthy testicles (hell, it's hard enough to find a doctor who will remove an adult's healthy testicles unless the adult is transitioning MtF), so this thread is all kind of academic. Having said that, I think it's good to discuss what might take place in an ideal world. And I think prescribing androgen blockers for boys who want to become eunuchs eventually, and not just for boys who know their destiny is to be girls, would be a good thing. As YC points out, without blockers, by the time a male can finally be castrated it's too late. The voice has deepened, the penis has enlarged, the hair has grown, and when you do have your testicles removed you have to go through testosterone withdrawal (hot flashes, etc.).
But that's a really good question.
"Having said that, I think it's good to discuss what might take place in an ideal world.
ientation.mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am I am torn because I think your all making a good point about people who know from an early age that they are gay or trans-gendered. But doing anything the causes sterility is an important point to consider. I think its very likely that attitudes about raising a family DO change unlike sexual or
mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am Lets say you have a young guy who decides he does not wish to be male. Be it M2F or Eunuch it doesn't matter. If he states that he doesn't want the trouble of raising kids and he knows he never does. Well their is the problem that people really DO change.
Nope.. We don't do it for men your age."mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am I don't know if its hormonal or if there is just a change in attitude as you get older but I know first hand I had it. At 19 I approached a clinic about being sterlized and they simply said "
's viewpoint, if they provide a service to sterilize people,mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am ."
*With my problems it was probably not needed but I did change and I know many others who have changed and have families.
Strictly from the Doctor
how can they do it?mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am where there is even a fair chance that they will regret it,
mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am I appreciate the parents who bring younger kids in who are TS and say we want to start this process early to get maximum effect and I'm not even sure thats wrong but I think its more complex then that. You have to consider the desire for bio kids at some point.
mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am Maybe if the same situation was presented where the parents were fully on board the kid was at least close to the age of "reason" and they made some sort of attempt to bank sperm or eggs???
[\QUOTE]mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 am I just think asking a 10 or 12 year old to make serious medical decisions is insane.
For many, they can't wait... It just seem to take way too long for them... for boys that want to drag out puberty, why not provide consultation, and if the evaluation shows that puberty should be delayed, work with him. Blockers do just, block (actually, simply delay) the onset of delay. Stop taking them, and puberty resume at the same rate it would have for that boy, just at a later date.mrt (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:49 pm I don't agree on a couple of points. For one maybe its just me but I didn't think I would ever want to be a parent but I grew up and what? Matured? Got more experience with the world had a different view?
Thats why I think its very twitchy to even think about allowing 10 and 12 year olds to make decision about the next 70+ years of their lives. What teenager or younger wants to be a mature adult and father kids? I guess few to none. Just as a lot of young men don't think they want to get married. Why do that when you can "screw around" with different women? Aging changes a lot of these attitudes and there is nothing you can do other then age to understand them *I think?
What teenager or younger wants to be a mature adult?
mrt (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:49 pm I admit I'm torn a bit because I have a lot of empathy for transexual people and yes, I understand that puberty makes changes that make transition more complicated / difficult to impossible. Still.....
Has anyone brought up the fact that even Chemical Castration has potential life time effects. Long term use will probably make that 10 year old sterile after a year or two. That seems like a pretty hard sell to any doctor prescribing it to me. How is he/she going to handle the law suits from the group that grow up and want a do over?
" this condition does have serious implications for maturating boys and adolescents.
13275), I have posted transcripts of two outstanding NPR programs discussing transgender children and whether or not they should be allowed to have their puberty chemically delayed. I have argued with Ken Zucker about his firm stand that children should be required to go through puberty before transitioning, but he sticks by his position. He argues that of the many boys he has seen in his clinic, of those who believed themselves to be girls before they reached puberty, only 20% went on to transition after they went through full male puberty. This is quite different from the experience of Peggy Cohen-Kettenis in the Netherlands where, of about 100 transgender children who were put on hormone blockers to delay puberty and who were allowed to transition without ever going through the “wrong” puberty, not one has shown any regret for their transition.JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:33 pm (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=
12841&page=3).JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:33 pm (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=