Also worth noting that osteopenia and osteoporosis are basically just different levels of the same issue, namely loss of bone density... Osteopenia is just bone density that is significantly below the 'normal' range but isn't low enough to be classed as osteoporosis. Neither is good, both have increased risk of fractures, etc. osteopenia just isn't QUITE as bad.

WheelyCurious

1mg/day of estrodiol should be enough to protect your bones and cardiovascular system without much feminization. One of the biggest contributors of permanent shrinkage is going to be total lack of erections so anything that helps stop erections will help to aid shrinkage. Dutusteride would be helpful and maybe pumpkin seed oil which is a natural DHT agonist.

Maybe research that shrinking penis syndrome they're researching in Indonesia that someone just posted about here?

Ah, here it is: http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... =indonesia

Paolo wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:42 pm Maybe research that shrinking penis syndrome they're researching in Indonesia that someone just posted about here?

Ah, here it is: http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... =indonesia

It was an interesting article, but not sure it helps the folks doing Cimetidine in this thread...

First there is the question of how to induce the syndrome in someone not from that culture, especially voluntarily... From my reading it seems most (all?) the reported sufferers of it were involuntary. Of course that may be the effect of self selection, those that were happy about it presumably wouldn't have gone to healers to get it fixed...

Secondly, it sounded like the effects were temporary....

WheelyCurious

Like Wheely said, it probably won’t help people using cimetidine, but if my understanding is correct, on a physiological level, this is somewhat similar to what people here were doing when they were using reboxetine (edronax) in order to shrink. The article states that the koro related shrinking is tied to high levels of stress/panic surrounding the shrinking of the penis, as well as mentioning the fight-or-flight response, which implies the physiological release of adrenaline. Reboxetine, an SNRI (Selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor), inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine (neurotransmitter) when it is released. In other words, where norepinephrine is usually reabsorbed by the neuron that released it, someone who is taking an SNRI will just be left with that norepinephrine floating around, contributing to a heightened state of arousal, as you would after going for a run or exercising. Again, this is just my understanding, after a decent amount of time spent researching these drugs.

As some people might know, cimetidine is a Histamine H2 receptor Antagonist, which is not directly related to the penis from what we know. Even though the corpus cavernosum does have histamine receptors, from what I’ve been able to find in current literature, H2 doesn’t seem to have much effect on blood vessel/erectile function in the penis. What I have been able to find though is an interesting quote from this paper (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8324332/) which states: “The intravenous administration of cimetidine led to a stransient but moderate drop in the mean blood pressure as well as a delayed appearance of high concentrations of noradrenaline and adrenaline, induced by high concentrations of circulating histamine released with cimetidine.”. This somewhat brings us back to the adrenaline induced shrinking I mentioned earlier.

What I don’t know yet (and may never know) is how cimetidine induced shrinkage seems to last past cessation of “treatment”, whereas people using reboxetine reported a return to normal. There must be some other mechanism involved…

fvschia01 (imported) wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:59 pm What I don’t know yet (and may never know) is how cimetidine induced shrinkage seems to last past cessation of “treatment”, whereas people using reboxetine reported a return to normal. There must be some other mechanism involved…

I could be off base, especially since I haven't done a lot of research into either cimetidine or reboxetine, but I think I saw mention earlier in this thread that there was reported damage to some of the structures in the testicles where significant shrinkage was observed... Presumably if that damage doesn't repair itself, then there would be a lack of recovery on size as well. Especially since penis shrinkage is supposedly primarily caused by lack of regular erections...

WheelyCurious

I definitely agree with you on the point that penis shrinkage is

WheelyCurious wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:29 pm caused by lack of regular erections.

As for the literature that addresses apoptosis cells in the testes and surrounding structures, weight of sex organs etc. from a purely scientific viewpoint, I really can't put that much weight on them simply because the doses used in those rodent models are insanely high compared to what we're using. While the standard for us is about 1000mg/day, or about 14mg per kg of bodyweight per day, the studied rodent models were given between 20mg/kg/day on the lower end, up to 120mg/kg/day which is much higher than anything we're using. Not to mention certain studies use different methods of administration, some of which may result in higher rate of absorption compared to others (injection compared to oral for example). Others (specifically the 2018 study which reported organ weights) just have small sample sizes for the different treatment groups which don't really allow us to make strong inferences about how generalizable the findings are among larger groups, let alone how applicable they are in humans (this particular study also didn't find much in the way of loss of weight of any of the organs measured). At the end of the day, they can give us indications on how it works, but none of them give us any information on how cimetidine may alter the penis, as most of them broadly look at sexual function and therefore focus more on the testes.

All in all, I haven't been able to find anything that carries over well, as well what may be causing longer term changes to the penis. My best guesses would be that it's a combination of apoptosis of structures in the testes + vascular damage, which may also be happening in the penis (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub), some sort of antiandrogen action (https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S ... 0217-6/pdf), and a short term shrinking effect due to the additional adrenaline released as a result of the increase in released histamine.

I'm probably going to be starting a protocol that I'll be using in the goal of shrinking without feminisation, where I'll pretty much be throwing the kitchen sink at the issue. From my findings, permanent shrinkage takes about 6 months with minimal/no erections to begin occurring through penile fibrosis. I know this is conflicting with what others have experienced, but I want to make sure this "trial" is as optimised and effective as possible. I'll be using a combination of cimetidine, an SNRI like reboxetine, Dutasteride to inhibit 5ar in the hopes of inhibiting erections as much as possible while attempting to retain my natural testosterone production, as well as a very small, pretty much inverted chastity cage. I'm going to do my best to make this as safe as possible by regularly getting bloodwork done, however I really wouldn't recommend anyone to try it. I'll be logging my progress here when I do start, hopefully I'll see good results.

Well, good luck with it... I'm hoping to do the TG center route, so mostly I've been following this thread out of general interest... Besides, I don't need to shrink the penis, as I think it's already smaller than it was before I hit puberty - if only the rest would shrink to match....

WheelyCurious

I look forward to your future reports. I have had good experiences with reboxetine and cimetidine. Previously also in combination with Androcure. There has been a little shrinkage. I also suspect that it is due to the lack of erections. The way with cimetidine alone is probably not successful. I have not had a morning glory for a very long time. At some point it disappeared and never returned. There is also no erection during sleep. There is also no stiffening with me during erotic acts. I have stopped all medications for two months now. It remains as it is. The size of the penis is after discontinuation of edronax again a little longer. only through a penis pump I can become large. When I try to put on the penis ring after removing the pump it immediately becomes flaccid. But it is not important because I do not have penetrative sex with my wife. She accepts that I no longer exist between the legs. The whole thing is always enclosed by large diapers. over it a pair of protective pants and a light compression girdle pants. I have a beautiful female siluette in the crotch between the legs. When I see it it turns me on.... but unlike before absolutely nothing happens behind the protective clothing.... only in the brain

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

This page likely isn't going anywhere, but know about Cimetidine before you take it:

https://www.drugs.com/mtm/cimetidine.html

The EA is not promoting gobbling large amounts of this, or anything for that matter. All things in moderation!