I am sorry, but I am at a loss to understand this. Why would a child want to be castrated? Or why would someone castrate a child or a young man? Certainly no

medical professional would dare to even imagine performing such a procedure on a

child or a adolescent.

Sarge

Indianapolis

msgtron (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:09 pm I am sorry, but I am at a loss to understand this. Why would a child want to be castrated? Or why would someone castrate a child or a young man? Certainly no

medical professional would dare to even imagine performing such a procedure on a

child or a adolescent.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, only for myself, but by the time I was 12 I knew for certain I didn't want to grow up sexually. I didn't want a deep voice, or hair on my body, or or a large penis. And I knew enough at that point that I knew having my testicles removed would take care of that for me, so I knew I didn't want them anymore.

You're absolutely right that no doctor would remove a boy's healthy testicles (hell, it's hard enough to find a doctor who will remove an adult's healthy testicles unless the adult is transitioning MtF), so this thread is all kind of academic. Having said that, I think it's good to discuss what might take place in an ideal world. And I think prescribing androgen blockers for boys who want to become eunuchs eventually, and not just for boys who know their destiny is to be girls, would be a good thing. As YC points out, without blockers, by the time a male can finally be castrated it's too late. The voice has deepened, the penis has enlarged, the hair has grown, and when you do have your testicles removed you have to go through testosterone withdrawal (hot flashes, etc.).

But that's a really good question.

I don't agree on a couple of points. For one maybe its just me but I didn't think I would ever want to be a parent but I grew up and what? Matured? Got more experience with the world had a different view? Thats why I think its very twitchy to even think about allowing 10 and 12 year olds to make decision about the next 70+ years of their lives. What teenager or younger wants to be a mature adult and father kids? I guess few to none. Just as a lot of young men don't think they want to get married. Why do that when you can "screw around" with different women? Aging changes a lot of these attitudes and there is nothing you can do other then age to understand them *I think?

I admit I'm torn a bit because I have a lot of empathy for transexual people and yes, I understand that puberty makes changes that make transition more complicated / difficult to impossible. Still.....

Has anyone brought up the fact that even Chemical Castration has potential life time effects. Long term use will probably make that 10 year old sterile after a year or two. That seems like a pretty hard sell to any doctor prescribing it to me. How is he/she going to handle the law suits from the group that grow up and want a do over?

Sarge,

Please read the entire thread and realize that this is an academic discussion inviting opinion and debate.

As for me, I am of the mind that things such as lupron injections may be fine in some cases - after thorough analysis of boy and family - but I have not changed my mind on the idea of surgery. In fact, I'm about to ready to start sneaking some depo or something into the boys' morning Cherrios...

hehe



Heck - the 16 yo. here wants his first tatoo, and his parents are all for it. I'm just shocked and would say "hell no" ... but that's me.

I guess I don't see any difference between a boy who wants to be a eunuch and a boy who wants to be a girl. Both are unhappy with the way their body will turn out if they don't do something. That's why I like to think of both as forms of transgenderism or, if you prefer, gender dysphoria. Yes, those of us who know we don't want to mature sexually eventually go through puberty and adjust to lives as adults, but the feeling that something isn't right doesn't go away. It took me 36 years after I knew for certain I wanted to be a eunuch to finally become one, but all that time I knew my testicles didn't belong as part of my body - they were foreign objects that had betrayed me by disfiguring my body.

I think there's a level of discomfort with boys who don't want to become men that has to a certain extent been overcome with regard to MtF transgenderism and also with boys who want to have sex with boys, and the first expression of this discomfort is "it's only a phase - he'll get over it". Sounds like what they used to say about gay boys, and then boys who dressed in girls' clothes and said they wanted to be girls. Trust me on this, we don't get over it. We will be neutered eventually, it's just a question of whether we will have to go through puberty first.

Just as boys can receive blockers so they don't become men before they can transition to women, I really believe boys should be able to receive blockers so they don't become men period. I recognize that in the real world castration probably will never be an option until a guy's 18th birthday, but there should be some relief in the meantime. Yes, put in proper safeguards to try to weed out the boys for whom it's a passing fancy (although they probably will select themselves out when they feel jealous of their friends as the friends become sexual), but don't force those of us who wish to remain pre-sexual to conform to the wishes of the majority of guys who are perfectly happy becoming men.

I am torn because I think your all making a good point about people who know from an early age that they are gay or transgendered. But doing anything the causes sterility is an important point to consider. I think its very likely that attitudes about raising a family DO change unlike sexual orrientation.

Lets say you have a young guy who decides he does not wish to be male. Be it M2F or Eunuch it doesn't matter. If he states that he doesn't want the trouble of raising kids and he knows he never does. Well their is the problem that people really DO change. I don't know if its hormonal or if there is just a change in attitude as you get older but I know first hand I had it. At 19 I approached a clinic about being sterlized and they simply said "nope.. We don't do it for men your age." *With my problems it was probably not needed but I did change and I know many others who have changed and have families.

Strictly from the Doctors viewpoint if they provide a service to sterlize people where there is even a fair chance that they will regret it how can they do it?

I appreciate the parents who bring younger kids in who are TS and say we want to start this process early to get maximum effect and I'm not even sure thats wrong but I think its more complex then that. You have to consider the desire for bio kids at some point.

Maybe if the same situation was presented where the parents were fully on board the kid was at least close to the age of "reason" and they made some sort of attempt to bank sperm or eggs???

I just think asking a 10 or 12 year old to make serious medical decisions is insane.

Oh, and I agree on the Tatoos!

This is a bad analogy, a very, very bad analogy...but...

...if a 12 year old boy came home insisting that he wanted to join the CRIPS, would you condone that also?

...and so maybe he will grow up and join a street gang. Does this mean we should let him do it before he is mature enough to know if he wants to live his (probably short :shakemitk) life as a gangsta?

I mean, these are children. They are not capable of adult decisions.

AND no, I realize where you are all coming from, but you cannot judge the world by your individual experiences.

Paolo, YOU ARE RIGHT! NO TATTOOS! ..... PERIOD! Not until they are 18!

Suppose I told you that I saw a girl in a High School class pulled her hip huggers down last September and show off her pelvic tats that were (somewhat) above where her pelvic hairline was. Suppose I would have told her that would not happen again... So, she is 15 - 16 at the most... now suppose that she is pregnant... adult decisions, yes. Is it right? Hell NO! Will she ever admit that she should NOT have become pregnant? No, not for a while, maybe NEVER...

If she DID NOT become pregnant would she regret not having become pregnant? She may have, but maybe not. She IS not much more than a child...

Are you admitting that you should have been allowed to change as a child, to make an ADULT decision regarding your gender before you knew what you wanted for sure? Oh, sure, you know now, but really, did you then? Be honest and try to remember...

I mean, proper parental guidance should NOT allow a child to be grounded in a decision that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives...

This is referred to as "Identity Fixation" in all of the adolesent Psychology textbooks, and no matter how an individual is supposedly "destined" to turn out, we just DO NOT have the scientific expertise to foretell their future and allow them to fixate themselves with no other option than the decision that they make as children. If a child has IDENTITY FIXATION, they become a very unhappy adult? But, then, is this what YOU are dealing with now?

Minors should not be allowed to get tattoos, but neither should they be allowed to make 'other' permanent changes to their bodies. Like you ALL know what...

OR should we excuse their excessive behaviors like they do when they say, "Boys will be Boys"

We could just say, "Oh well, Boys will be Girls"

I think that allowing either before they are mature is the same as giving a driver's license to a 10 year old. A gun permit to a 12 year old... I mean, they are wanting to carry a gun as an adult so why wait?

Can't you all see this. I mean, remove your personal experiences, and look... these are children...

Just because you may be a transexual or Gay or something different from mainstream now, do you think that your feelings have not been experienced by others too ashamed or too embarrassed to admit it? Just because they went another way than you did does it mean that they are unhappy now?

Perhaps no, perhaps yes?

It is just that we cannot change the world because of what did or what did not happen to US... Children MUST have options, it is part of growing up... even if those options seem distasteful to us, nevertheless, they must be allowed. But not before they ....KNOW

There is plenty of time to 'change' your sex after you are 18.

Did anybody here KNOW for sure what they wanted at 18? If so, why did you not start then?

What say you all? Think carefully, no kneejerk reactions, O.K.?

...I just have to be the Devil's Advocate, ...don't I?

P.S., Paolo, if you get caught spiking the cereal with Depo, Jesus and I will be your pen pals while you do your time in PM. I say that because you get caught doing that and go to jail you could not survive for long in General Population...O.K.?

Hi there all: Just wanted to say that this has been a really interesting thread and has changed my view of the issues. I originally thought that castrating minors was strictly exploitative and consequently not to be tolerated. The frank comments from those who have been through the process of growing up in the wrong gender and knowing that you wanted desperately to change direction is illuminating and informative. Thank you for these comments here and your frank discussion of what must be for you a very personal private and possibly painfull topic. It has changed my perspective dramatically

When I was growing up the maturity of a 16 year old is like some of the now days maturity of some 21 year olds it seems. Personally I then they should consider a maturity test before joining the military, voter registration, marriage license, and getting ID to purchase spirits.

_g (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:03 am When I was growing up the maturity of a 16 year old is like some of the now days maturity of some 21 year olds it seems. Personally I then they should consider a maturity test before joining the military, voter registration, marriage license, and getting ID to purchase spirits.

I've always wondered about this whole maturity thing. Maturity is pretty subjective, I think. There are quite a few choices people of all ages make that a lot of people feel would suggest immaturity, but there are others who see no problems with these choices. So how do we determine what makes a person deserve to be considered mature?

I am not so sure we can judge maturity based on a few actions here and there. Everyone makes stupid choices every once in a while. It doesn't matter how old or mature you are.

Rather, I feel in order to truly judge a person's level of maturity, you need to look at their overall character.

I will agree with you that many young people are immature. I come across college age students daily who are painfully immature, and this immaturity is probably a large part of why I have never associated much with people my own age.

What I cannot agree with is this belief most people have that age automaically equals maturity. I have known many adults in my lifetime who I would consider quite immature, and I have known many children who I felt were more mature than most adults. While age typically equals more life experience, even life experience does not equal maturity. One has to learn from that life experience and grow as a person because of it.

Speaking of me, I haven't hit that magical developmental milestone of age 25 yet, so I am not yet mature. Exactly on my 25th birthday, my brain will finish maturing, and on that day I can instantly expect a rush of maturity to hit me. I am looking forward to it.