Free to be ME (imported) wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:19 am The SS and E63 AMG were run on Uk's Top Gear track not just in a straight line but as you may not beaware of Detroit Iron now is not the mush boxes of even 10 years ago. My point was this they took a right of the assembly line Camaro up against a non stock E63 AMG from MB's in house performence shop AMG. If the MB had been bone stock non special order the results would be far different. To be fair a test of it lets put a Fastlane Turbo Camaro against it while its not from an in house tuning shop its from a tuning shop. By the way a fastlane Camaro with the limeter off went 191 mph faster then the AMG and again far less expensive.

Yes I know it's not the mush box of 10 years ago, but its not exactly on the cutting edge of steering technology and feel either. Decently good is still not the same as amazingly awesome.

The AMG E63 is a valid mass production model. I don't see how you can call it "non-stock". By your logic, any Camaro with the "SS" badge isn't stock either. It is quite laughable if you keep insisting the E63 isnt stock just because its a top of the line AMG. Your idea seems to be to run a Camaro, which is a sports coupe, against a basic E200 which is a basic family car? Surely american cars aren't THAT lousy you need to try to stack the deck in your favour like that.

Your fastlane Camaro would laughably BE more expensive by the time I get it over to the UK. I already pointed out time again and again, your claims about it being cheaper is on very shaky ground when you stop and remember America isn't the entire planet.

End of the day, of those 2 cars, one can still be a dignified family car, a comfortable highway cruiser, 4 doors, sits 5, and has a proper usable boot. I know which one is the one with the true value. It would not be the one trick pony.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:51 pm Your fastlane Camaro would laughably BE more expensive by the time I get it over to the UK. I already pointed out time again and again, your claims about it being cheaper is on very shaky ground when you stop and remember America isn't the entire planet.

End of the day, of those 2 cars, one can still be a dignified family car, a comfortable highway cruiser, 4 doors, sits 5, and has a proper usable boot. I know which one is the one with the true value. It would not be the one trick pony.

Gee, as someone who lives in the US that knows the US isn't the entire planet (largely because I get out of the country once in a while), this really seemed like American bashing at it's finest. I'm actually quite offended, its as if you think everyone in the US is some dullard idiot that has no ability to comprehend things on a global scale.

The thing I've found laughable about these comparisons is that the citizenry in Europe tends to think the US is some big polluting, over credit extended, evil, when on a per capita basis, their own countries are likely as bad or worse. There's a huge difference between a country that is smaller than most US states, and the United States as a whole. You guys like to make comparisons on a per country basis to make yourselves look good when a per capita basis is a more accurate reflection of things.

Back to the point though, it's one thing to bash the cars but it's entirely another to bash how expensive they are because they are American. If the US cars are that expensive in the UK it is because of punitive UK tarriffs and taxes, not the production cost and transportation to the UK. Given the fact that the British Pound trades at a much higher rate than the US Dollar, I find the brief economic statement absurd. And since I considered moving to the UK recently I did my research on what I would earn there vs. in the US (taking into account taxes, and other expenses) and found that I would be earning one pound for each dollar I earned in the US. So if I earned 50,000 dollars per year, I'd be earning 50,000 pounds per year. Those 50,000 pounds were about 75,000-80,000 US dollars at the time.

I will agree with you that if the factory/manufacturer produced the car and it is available to be tested without making any modifications to how it came out of the factory, then yes, that is a stock car. However, if you want to do it on a sports car basis vs. a family sedan basis, then why are you comparing these two cars?

Yank tank?

2011 Cadillac CTS-V, coupe or sedan

567HP...0-60MPH in 3.9 sec

a little more than a Camaro, but on the Vegas speedway for training...wowzers LOL

Funny how a car discussion can get everyone revved up:) I just watched Top Gear xmas special as I am in the uk. The team were in america. Clarkson sliding a car around a track with far too little grip and way too much power. Left behind by a F458 that didnt burst into flames and a 911 with colour clashing disc brakes (urgh). oh yes he was in a merc..... made it look like it handled like a top fuel drag car! There is always prejudice and arguments about cars. Some aspects of any cars will always be better in another, it realy is about what each individual wants... great fun debate though if you like cars

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:51 pm End of the day, of those 2 cars, one can still be a dignified family car, a comfortable highway cruiser, 4 doors, sits 5, and has a proper usable boot. I know which one is the one with the true value. It would not be the one trick pony.

American cars don't have boots, they use tires and have trunks.

River

Am I in over my head yet?

It is amazing that we are separated by a common language.

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:30 pm American cars don't have boots, they use tires and have trunks.

River

Am I in over my head yet?

It is amazing that we are separated by a common language.

In the US if your car has a boot, you've got problems.

tjstill (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:44 pm Funny how a car discussion can get everyone revved up:) I just watched Top Gear xmas special as I am in the uk. The team were in america. Clarkson sliding a car around a track with far too little grip and way too much power. Left behind by a F458 that didnt burst into flames and a 911 with colour clashing disc brakes (urgh). oh yes he was in a merc..... made it look like it handled like a top fuel drag car! There is always prejudice and arguments about cars. Some aspects of any cars will always be better in another, it realy is about what each individual wants... great fun debate though if you like cars

I just got done viewing this episode. In the first 2 segments they were driving around the area where I used to live until I moved to California in early 2009. They even went to VIR (Virginia International Raceway) in the city of Danville, Virginia, which is one of the 3 towns I lived in when in that area.

It was fun watching the background in this British series as it aired knowing I had traveled down many of those highways only a couple years before. I knew exactly where they were at by the bridges they crossed and the road signs I saw.

It didn't surprise me they couldn't find a tire for Clarkson's Mercedes in North Wilkesboro, North Carolina. I was very surprised they were able to find him that tire in Danville, Virginia. I would have thought he would need to go to Greensboro or Winston-Salem, North Carolina to find it, which by the looks of it he drove through both.

OK, enough of me fondly remembering where I used to live.

I knew in the New York portion where they had to go to the TV studio that they were not heading to anything that was a major US broadcast network. None of the major US networks have anything located in that part of Manhattan. It was brilliant that Captain Slow figured out how New York is laid out and didn't bother with his SatNav/GPS to get him there.

Oh, and in the US a Merc is a Mercury, a car that until the past year or so had been manufactured by Ford. James Dean drove a Mercury in the movie Rebel Without a Cause. To we Yanks, a Mercedes is a Mercedes.

Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:13 pm Gee, as someone who lives in the US that knows the US isn't the entire planet (largely because I get out of the country once in a while), this really seemed like American bashing at it's finest. I'm actually quite offended, its as if you think everyone in the US is some dullard idiot that has no ability to comprehend things on a global scale.

The thing I've found laughable about these comparisons is that the citizenry in Europe tends to think the US is some big polluting, over credit extended, evil, when on a per capita basis, their own countries are likely as bad or worse. There's a huge difference between a country that is smaller than most US states, and the United States as a whole. You guys like to make comparisons on a per country basis to make yourselves look good when a per capita basis is a more accurate reflection of things.

Back to the point though, it's one thing to bash the cars but it's entirely another to bash how expensive they are because they are American. If the US cars are that expensive in the UK it is because of punitive UK tarriffs and taxes, not the production cost and transportation to the UK. Given the fact that the British Pound trades at a much higher rate than the US Dollar, I find the brief economic statement absurd. And since I considered moving to the UK recently I did my research on what I would earn there vs. in the US (taking into account taxes, and other expenses) and found that I would be earning one pound for each dollar I earned in the US. So if I earned 50,000 dollars per year, I'd be earning 50,000 pounds per year. Those 50,000 pounds were about 75,000-80,000 US dollars at the time.

I will agree with you that if the factory/manufacturer produced the car and it is available to be tested without making any modifications to how it came out of the factory, then yes, that is a stock car. However, if you want to do it on a sports car basis vs. a family sedan basis, then why are you comparing these two cars?

God knows. I wasn't the one who decided a Camaro SS would or should be pitted against an AMG 63. They're not even the same class. That a family sedan could pull such performance is amazing.

As for what you earn, the point is still that, american motors are cheap for YOU because you guys are buying them in USA. Yes you might realise USA isn't the whole world, but have YOU been reading Free to be Me's posts? Really? He keeps banging on about how cheap american motors are and completely disregards the fact that a GT-R in Japan would be way cheaper than anything brought in from the USA, and claims that is why american motors are superior to everything else? Come on... I know not all of you are self centered but when I call out an american who IS, you don't need to take it personally as an affront to ALL americans? Duh...

Dometoo: Actually a CTS-V would be more appropriate to compare against an AMG merc. Surprisingly good too, not M3 sharp, but apparently very very little behind anything the best that Europe can throw at it. It's just