vesal_mas (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:45 pm Fhunter, Thanks for keeping up.

Take care.

Vesal.Thank you.

Two days ago (the same date as previous post) I almost told my sister about me being on androcur. What stopped me - was constant presence of my nephew somethere close (no need to plant extra ideas in kid's head, he is 8, but bright and would probably understand at least some of it and demand explanation) and the other thing was - fear of bad reaction. She has medical training and I don't know how she will react. She already said some things about me, being strange and all.

Yesterday, mother said - "you look strange", and proceeded to say about emotions, and asked - "what wrong with you?". I know, that I was under stress for the last few days and my emotions were changing quickly (some little things affected me almost to tears). And I don't know how to answer on this. I made up some excuse, but don't know if that was believed or not.

Then was the talk with one of my friends. She knew me well (or not so well, I don't know). She knew me closely for 5 years, then our ways separated, but we still keep in touch. Well, during the talk on IM yesterday, I mentioned being on chemical castration, and got very negative reaction. I tried to explain, but failed - so much for verbal skills in native language :-\. She had some valid points (and even more of invalid, to the point - "why are you killing yourself?"), which I now need to think over.

The other one, who knows is my gf (or should I call her just a friend now? that would be more correct, don't know...), well, her reaction was - "just don't harm yourself".

Now I'm stopping taking androcur, for a month probably. I think this would be enough to reverse the changes, at least partly. Then I will decide - to stop fully or to continue. Now I just don't know and unsure.

You should do what you feel is right. Androcur is only a " test" and if you don't like the effects, you should indeed stop taking it. You probably do not want castration then either.

I haven't run off from this thread

It's day 12 since I went off androcur.

Should have written this update a bit earlier, but spent last 3 days out of town, relaxing, swimming, gathering wild strawberries and mushrooms and riding forest roads and trails on antique (it's older than me - so antique) bycicle.

Back on topic, I'm not Yoli:). I stopped androcur because I was afraid of changes. The other reason was - I got confused with my sexual orientation and gender.

Now I regret stopping it. Jean was right...

Some changes are reversed - I got sexual thoughts back (better had not - I have forgotten in 1.5 months how annoying they can be).

What surprised me - after I went off androcur, I got memory problems (had it in slight form then I was on), but searching - where have I put keys/phone/pen/etc and other things like this is not fun. Almost drowned my watch (forgot to take them off), when I went swimming.

Few days ago I told everything to my GF and one of the friends - they knew from the beginning, but no details. I told most of the details and surprised GF, saying that I want to try it again.

One other thing I wanted to say - I got comment that my face changed. I noticed it earlyer, but couldn't pinpoint the change. Now I got that comment - it was like this:

"have you lost weight?" - "probably not, why?" - "your face changed, your cheekbones are more pronounced"

Think you can see why we feel that chemical castration is the best way to understand the full effects of castration. It is not what most people think it will be like. The loss of memory is not related to the drug. Some say that with out T the memory is less. But do not think any real test has been done. Think it was more age related. Most of the guys were in the later years and may would have had memory problems anyways. You have been on the drug or a while and off for a short time.

If you want to go on with the test castration you can expect more changes. I do not remember if you were ever tested to see if you were at castrated levels?

Dear Fhunter,

I remember my cognitive functions were much better when taking androcur.

Then in 2006 I wrote: Emontionnaly: just great: Like I allready told before: There is a clarity in thoughts I never experienced before. My memory is better. I feel I can my do my work far more easily. (it's long and concentrated work, with many fine gestures.)

So possibly these memory problems are perhaps just coincidence. Maybe this is not abnormal. Woman have alse lots of monthly changes and certainly when they reach 50. Hormonal changes can change radically our way of living and thinking. We are just not like a cat or a dog that can restart a life without problems after that snip.

We cannot help you with all of your problems you are facing. But talking about them can possible give a little light on it.

Take care,

Vesal.

bobbie (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:37 pm Think you can see why we feel that chemical castration is the best way to understand the full effects of castration. It is not what most people think it will be like. The loss of memory is not related to the drug. Some say that with out T the memory is less. But do not think any real test has been done. Think it was more age related. Most of the guys were in the later years and may would have had memory problems anyways. You have been on the drug or a while and off for a short time.

If you want to go on with the test castration you can expect more changes. I do not remember if you were ever tested to see if you were at castrated levels?

Yes, may be memory problems were unrelated. At least now they are no more (at least haven't noticed anything).

I want to go on, at least give chemical castration a try once more.

I wasn't tested for hormone levels - and I regret this.

But now I found where to have this test, and I think it's cheap enough (for a bit less then 30$, I can get testosterone, free testosterone and estradiol levels).

So will take the test for le

vesal_mas (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:19 pm vels at the beginning and at the end of first month.

Dear Fhunter,

I remember my cognitive functions were much better when taking androcur.

Then in 2006 I wrote: Emontionnaly: just great: Like I allready told before: There is a clarity in thoughts I never experienced before. My memory is better. I feel I can my do my work far more easily. (it's long and concentrated work, with many fine gestures.)

So possibly these memory problems are perhaps just coincidence. Maybe this is not abnormal. Woman have alse lots of monthly changes and certainly when they reach 50. Hormonal changes can change radically our way of living and thinking. We are just not like a cat or a dog that can restart a life without problems after that snip.

We cannot help you with all of your problems you are facing. But talking about them can p

ossible give a little light on it.

Take care,

Vesal.My cognitive functions, while I was on androcur, were mostly good. Better or not - I don't know. Emotionally - I had times of feeling really calm. I had ups and downs - but not bad most of the times.

And thanks for your concern.

Fhunter aka Nikolaj.

fhunter wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:30 am Now I'm stopping taking androcur, for a month probably. I think this would be enough to reverse the changes, at least partly. Then I will decide - to stop fully or to continue. Now I just don't know and unsure.

Check out the documentation that came with whatever drugs you use. Some of them must not be stopped all at once. Some require that you gradually reduce the dose over several weeks, up to six or eight weeks. There are a lot of internal hormonal and chemical things going on and you can have very bad consequences from not observing all of the drugs contraindications and directions. The body's chemistry is not an ON/OFF switch like a computer.

That's why I am delaying my Siterone Aug 1 start date. I need to stock pile enough Siterone so that if my supply line dries up I can at least bring myself down gently by reducing the dose over a month or so.

Go slow, be gentle with your body; don't over think.

nullorchis (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:37 pm Check out the documentation that came with whatever drugs you use. Some of them must not be stopped all at once. Some require that you gradually reduce the dose over several weeks, up to six or eight weeks. There are a lot of internal hormonal and chemical things going on and you can have very bad consequences from not observing all of the drugs contraindications and directions. The body's chemistry is not an ON/OFF switch like a computer.

That's why I am delaying my Siterone Aug 1 start date. I need to stock pile enough Siterone so that if my supply line dries up I can at least bring myself down gently by reducing the dose over a month or so.

Go slow, be gentle with your body; don't over think.

I am not sure why androcur doses are suggested to increase and decrease gradually. I haven't seen any good explanation to that. It could be that patients that normally are meant to use androcur would not notice castration effects too abrubtly. While we, here on EA wish to have these effects as soon as possible and as deep as possible.

Surgical castration will reveal these effects even faster. And still people get castrated without any concern of loosing T-supply too abruptly.

Could any EA people explain, why androcur levels are suggested to change gradually?

erikboy (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:13 pm I am not sure why androcur doses are suggested to increase and decrease gradually. I haven't seen any good explanation to that. It could be that patients that normally are meant to use androcur would not notice castration effects too abrubtly. While we, here on EA wish to have these effects as soon as possible and as deep as possible.

Surgical castration will reveal these effects even faster. And still people get castrated without any concern of loosing T-supply too abruptly.

Could any EA people explain, why androcur levels are suggested to change gradually?

I can try, may be I am wrong.

As far as I understand, endocrine system is a closed loop control system (systems to be correct, but that doesn't matter here). If such system is affected too fast - that results in oscillations (depends on many things, but lets simplify once more).

Now back to androcur.

Reading the documentation, that came with androcur - I see indications:

inoperable prostate cancer

lowering libido in case of sexual deviations

. In both cases quick rise in testosterone levels wouldn't be desirable. (And changes in other hormones, linked with testosterone).

PS. My knowledge of endocrine system is limited. Same with control theory

PPS. I followed directions for lowering dose. I was on 50mg/day so could just stop (It was recommended to lower the dose by 25-50mg/few weeks).

From what I've read, Androcur interferes with the body's use of testosterone, not the production. As a result, T increases for a while when you start taking Androcur. However, the body eventually senses that and lowers normal T production. The reverse happens when you stop. There is a sudden need for T and it takes a while for the body to resume production at the level required.

The recommendation I've seen is that you shouldn't change Androcur levels more than 50 mg per week.