Wow. Perhaps the death penalty should be a separate thread.

Anyway, goddamn, was my point completely missed? I advocated for common sense NOT a zero tolerance. Also, it isn't "shoot everythig that moves" it is more like precision surgery. The object is not to kill the host (society) but only excise the cancer.

Under Hummurapi, there were no repeat offencers.

T.

Taylor (imported) wrote: Thu May 07, 2009 5:52 am Wow. Perhaps the death penalty should be a separate thread.

Anyway, goddamn, was my point completely missed? I advocated for common sense NOT a zero tolerance. Also, it isn't "shoot everythig that moves" it is more like precision surgery. The object is not to kill the host (society) but only excise the cancer.

Under Hummurapi, there were no repeat offencers.

T.

Taylor, maybe you just made your point at the wrong moment in the wrong place. Please forget about it. Just remember that using a gun kills at one side and hurts to the other side. Who doesn't understand this, has never used a gun

loveU

Jean

Did I tell that I am angry, I sure think I did.

Yeah, I need to see a therapist, got me an appointment with a psychiatrist, not a psychologist. Normally a family doctor have you a referral for a psychologist, and if needed this one will send you for a psychiatrist.

But on my request, my family doctor had no objections to hand me a referral for a psychiatrist. Getting angry, manipulating, its a big part of the problem.

I need

Jean Op den Kamp (imported) wrote: Wed May 06, 2009 8:16 am to understand if castration will

be more effective on my aggression then androcur. Maybe there are other medications to get it under control, or maybe I need a therapy. But at least I need a psychiatrist as he can deal with medications, and explain me clearly about the possibilities.

Only some weeks ago, as I came to my home in Vietnam, a young boy was sitting outside my door on the stairs. He was in a terrible condition.

I knew him very well, I had missed him, and I had been looking for him since I was back at Vietnam.

I know him and his family for long years, and six months ago his mother who has been sick for more then ten years has passed away. The family has fallen apart. Tinh, 19 years old borrows his own room now, he found a job. Seeing his dad maybe one time in 14 days and separated from his brothers and sisters,he had fallen into that famous deep space as one starts to realize that gone is gone forever, and he could fall extreme hard and deep as there was no family left to support. It took me almost two hours, holding him in my arms outside my home to calm him down a little. "I miss my mother, I am sad, I want to die"

People near my home and a lot of children were looking as I hold him, kissed him and have him cry, his head on my lap. I ordered Ph**** to get us some iced-tea. After a little drink, Tinh asked me if he could spend the night with me, and I was happy to agree as in no way I wanted to send him out in this condition. As we went to bed, I hold him in my arms, as I did seven years ago.

His family who got alarmed by other people went to his room, finding his goodbye letter.............

The next morning, some kids were having fun about me, and as I looked at Ph****, he translated for me that they were saying that I was a nice mummy

With the few words I can do by Vietnamese, I answered for them: "toi me??

vang" (I mummy, okay)

This is real, I can invite you there to find out, to check it, and this story tells a lot about my love. Love as connected to feelings, and not love as connected to sex (I guess that is the problem for the most of you, sometimes I even doubt if you do understand the difference)

But I can't deal with it anymore. I can't see why I am scum, why do I need to be separated from this society. Nobody there understands what the hell you all are talking about. But as I said, I have had it, this is going on all of my life. I need one of you to go there, and after I show you Tinh, I will prove that I can hold an kiss him, then have me go on my knees and smash my skull with a wooden bat. Finish my problem, please

Don't dare to say that this is not true. Nobody is making a difference between an arm around a child, holding him / her very tender offering a kiss against molesting, raping and murdering kids.

It is just so easy to call everything bad bad bad and make outcasts of people

Several years ago, I had to see a therapist, and at the first meeting I got that feeling that he would prefer to lock me away. His therapy came to me as one big lie. I think if that is the opinion of a therapist, he should not try to do that job, because it is easy to understand that his patients come out of the therapy more worse as they went in. Maybe one should consider (please only consider as a warning, please don't do it) to lock himself in and throw the key away. That way you are sure you never have to deal again with the problem.

Not even with the new generation.

Things can change fast, very fast............

In the Netherlands about ten days ago you could be the happy owner of a black Suzuki swifft. And now, after an idiot tried to hid the queen with such a car, you have to take care that you not get molested

People like that you find everywhere, not only on this board.

This makes me remember my story about KLIA (the Malaysian airport) Talking about my little friend was okay, asking something about eunuchs not done

If somebody starts to send links from articles and postings on this board, toward discussions on the internet, and he chooses them careful, making little comments, people will find what they need.....another group of outcasts

Within two or three months the board would suffer problems, and about two years people have to run for being eunuchs. I don't know, it sure would make a lot of you understand something. Maybe I have to ask my

psychiatrist.

As I said at the beginning, I am angry, I cannot stand it any longer,

so the devil is out........

But who really understands a little about that real nature of mine, should know that this devil still has a master, which means that we don't need any harm and no personal accidents will happen

But I really need help to get out of this circle somehow. I feel happy as androcur gets a little effect on it. After the messages in this thread, I had one bad night, and then calming down again. Couldn't believe it...

Jean

ps Poalo, there are three yellow stars next to my name now. I like the comments, I thank everybody, but please, can you finish them for me. The more stars I see flashing on this board next to a name, the more alarm bells are ringing

Jean,

Je hebt een verdomd groot probleem, vooral hier in Nederland waar ze alles in hokjes stoppen. De goeden kunnen hier niet van de kwaden gescheiden worden want dan past het niet. Volgens mij zal het ook erg moeilijk zijn om een goede therapeut te vinden die alles in het juiste perspectief ziet.

Wanneer een vrouw of moeder een kind ziet wat troost moet hebben is er meestal nix aan de hand. Maar wanneer een man het doet is gelijk het stempel gedrukt.

Kan me ook invoelen hoe je je voelt wanneer het commentaar weer eens d kop op steekt.

Ik ben getrouwd, leerde een vrouw kennen en ik zag haar gewoon als een vriendin niet meer en niets minder. Mijn schoonzus komt in het ziekenhuis te liggen op het randje van de dood. Ik krijg een medisch probleem en wilde er kon er niet met met mijn vrouw over praten (die had andere dingen aan haar hoofd Zus)). Wilde erover praten met die zgn vriendin en die dacht dat ik wat anders van haar wilde, terwijl ik

haar op seksueel gebied helemaal niet aantrekkelijk vind.

Mensen zien en interpreteren dingen vaak anders als als dat het bedoeld is.

Ik wens je erg veel sterkte in je zoektocht en ik hoop dat je je antwoorden kunt vinden zodat je rust in je leven kunt krijgen.

grtz eef

eefje46 (imported) wrote: Wed May 06, 2009 11:00 pm This was just shouting from a Dutch politica who want to have attention. She is scoring low in the polls.

And, when someone ever do thinghs to my kids, and i wil find out who it was he, she or it, neighbour, family I cant stand for my doing then.

thats all i have to say about this.

Hey my friend,

I am not in the position to score my points easily. She was shouting something that a lot of people like to hear, and to score I needed a looser.

I cannot attack Wilders on this.

Against her it was so easy to point out that again she was shouting and knowing nothing. So I used her. Maybe you have noticed that the article was not available on the internet version of Spits, so there was no space for nerds to shout me down. This article will ad an important issue to al the discussions that she restarted at universities, hospitals etc. I think I got my message exactly to the place where I needed it, and by the time people

start to discus, I will only be a somebody with a message......I am out of sight and save

Take care of your kids, that's okay

and take care of yourself

Jean

I did read your article in the spits. and i thought is was well said. And the final i thougt it was funny the gamma way. But it certainly it is sad that that is the only way to get to your objectives

grtz eef

nullorchis (imported) wrote: Thu May 07, 2009 12:52 am Seems to me that different types of illegal behavior require different types of treatment.

There are acts where a person is sane and either commits a crime against property, or against a person or persons.

Crimes against persons might range from robbery, injury, abuse, death, etc.

Such people are criminals and should go to prison to both punish them and protect society from them.

Then there are acts from a mentally deficient or insane person. They may or may not know they are doing wrong, but they just can't control themselves.

Such behavior might be against property (shoplifting) or against people (attacks, abuse, etc.)

I don't think the mentally deficient or insane person should be in an ordinary prison with sane violent or non-violent criminals; the two types are apples and oranges. And due to their mental shortcomings, it hardly seems civilized to execute insane or mentally deficient people like they were a mad dog or physically castrate them like they were a piece of livestock. These people are incapable of controlling themselves and they need to be removed from society for the protection of society, and secondly placed in a facility that protects them and attempts fix them. It is easy to hate, despise, and want justice against a sane person. But when someone is insane or severely mentally deficient (as are all peeping toms, molesters, and the like) treating them as they were an ordinary sane criminal seems quite inappropriate.

To remain a higher level civilized society I think we need to separate ourselves from the mentality of "if it moves shoot it". But as civilized beings we DO need to be proactive and take necessary steps to protect all members of society from anyone who would cause harm, loss, or damage to property or people.

nullorchis I enjoy your responses and insight into individuals personal afflictions. However, you have merely presented the classic argument that ultimately attempts to establish western civilization as "civilized".

Restricting human freedom may more greatly define "treating people like livestock" than preforming a procedure to reduce their sexual and agressive male drives.

For many men sitting in prison, or out victimizing others, testosterone is the key ingredient to their problematic behavior. We incarcerate them, offer CBT and even post their faces on the internet. But ultimately this is not effective and quite costly to the public in the form of higher taxes and future victimization. Infact many molesters are beaten and killed in our prison system every year. Jeffery Dahlmer is one that comes to mind. He would be the highest profile sexual deviate executed by our "civilized" system. And I thought the romans with their gladiators were inhumane.

On the point of inhumanity, I think leaving a person to suffer in this way, while providing ineffective psychological treatment is cruel and unusual. Let some poor bastard think they are "cured" and release them out on society again? If the person feels any guilt at all, when they offend again they have bought more life guilt, or worse they may just go on a spree, much better at masking their crimes than before. Get one psychiatrist to say "cured" and another to say no way. I've heard it before, it is the profession of psychiatry trying to justify itself.

No I'm sorry on this one. Castration works! It is simple, cost effective and humane for all involved. I am truely shocked that we call ourselves "civilized" but fear the social impact of wide spread hypogonadal males. As far as the argument of uncontrolled castration of criminals...look what is happening to children and psych meds, or addiction to prescribed pain medication. Do you think an industry that profits off treating disease is humane by encouraging illness. Is it civilized to institutionalize criminals and build an industry around treating, monitoring, and incarcerating the criminally insane. Is a person who suffers from impulse control, depression, and agression somehow more culpible than a person so vile that they must be "insane"? Take the argument from the molestors point of view for a change. Would rather be a labeled dangerous criminal or a person with mental health issues? The seventies and eighties already happened...we're not doing that again!

You are wrong on this one and presenting the classic argument, that we are "civilized" by offering to heal people,quite angelic by the way offering hope to the hopeless, because of the maiming atrocities of the past, just does not hold water. Indeed there were lobotomies, castrations, removal of tongues, "bleedings" and other procedures in the name of medical science and curing the ill. The difference with castration to treat male agression and sexual abuse of society is that it works, whereas the other procedure just left disability and possibly death. Further, the cure is aimed at the individual for the good of the "people". Other surgical interventions were aimed at the individual for the supposed good af the individual. With checks and balances in place castration could become more humane than incarceration, repeated offenses or the current treatment of individuals by the pychiatric system.

Now I must return to my ivory tower, up to the "highest level", beats snuggling up to the .60 cal.

chilli-

chilliwilli (imported) wrote: Mon May 11, 2009 11:52 pm nullorchis I enjoy your responses and insight into individuals personal afflictions. However, you have merely presented the classic argument that ultimately attempts to establish western civilization as "civilized".

Restricting human freedom may more greatly define "treating people like livestock" than preforming a procedure to reduce their sexual and agressive male drives.

chilli-

Nullorchis and Chilliwilli, the both of you thanks for a well-considered reply.

I have something more to say, and maybe I even need some hard words, but for this moment it might be a better idea to cool down

However, I have some point about civilization.

I do have a lot of support from former young friend (now grown up and still friends) and most of their family. But it seems not even to be allowed to talk about this, without being called down again. I never hurt them and they all accept that I still love them, even if I need the power to let them free and have them go their ways. (Being married, living with a girlfriend and so on)

Where does this civilization hide being civilized by not only paying me disrespect, but also acting as if my friends and family must be blind and stupid.

As for restricting human freedom, as I child lover and as a former child who lost his friend, I like to know where to find civilization in cutting away any freedom for children.

As for my young friend, I have no intentions to hurt him, I love him.

If I ever have to find out that I did hurt him, make him unhappy or damage him, I don't want to be brought to trial, why do we need a judge and making painful statements in public (more painful to the youngster). If we are talking about punishment, we think of ourselves as civilized for not having capital punishment. But what about a favour, if I hurt him....going on my knees and get shot.

Yeah I see this as a real question about being civilized. Locking people away for lifetime, damage the victims more by needing statements, and maybe he can get hurt without any illegal action. Why is there such a big difference between the responsibility I feel and the restrictions of the law. I might be far more hard up on myself then any of you expects.

I guess that this moment the chemical castration is working as I feel no needs at all. No wank for several weeks. This feels so good, I never had a real good connection to those needs, so please let them stay away. Loosing my needs (and I want that be real castration) to me means that I can concentrate even more on the needs of any partner, being adult or minor

I could hide my relation, but in my eyes keeping him behind the curtains would only mean that I want to protect myself and that I have anything to hide. I don't want to hide him, I am proud of him and he is a real smart guy. He need something more then being between poor and having little. He is the kind of child that needs friends, he likes to discover more then just his poor district in HCM. He got a shirt from one of the EA members, and I could see that that day he spend about three hours on the internet, searching and trying to find out. Loving him means that I want him to enjoy his freedom, and if protecting his freedom means that I take big personal risks, so be it.

It would be great if he get some more hints that the world doesn't end with his district.

To any victim of abuse who might feel bad and hurt about this. I am a very sensitive nature, and I have been listening a lot and careful. I can feel the pain many times, if I hear bad stories. Maybe you need a look in my eyes to understand what I mean by feeling sorry, but I ensure you that this is real.

Maybe it is because of your stories and my listening, that I can feel save not to hurt him.

loveUall

Jean

There are allready so many things said in this thread and I can add many words and stories as well.

I'll try to be short.

It was in the early sixties that a boy was killed in the woods by a man near the town where we used to live. I remember the conversation between my parents and one of their friends. The friend: "That man has to get castrated." My parents: "No, that is not a good idea, such a man needs help."

Thank you Mom and Dad!!!

A few years ago during a family dinner a family secret came out in very dramaticly way. My sister in law told she was as a child sexualy abused by her father and later her niece as well. The impact it had was gigantic. On her live, her marriage with my brother, the relation between my brother and his daughter, the relation between my sister in law and her brother who didn't believe her. What a pain, what a misunderstanding!!!

Also a few years ago a friend told me her brother had as a boy a sexual relation with a man. Her brother had still very warm feeling for this man and was fond of him.

About myself:

I was a cute boy and have felt the desire of men and women. Mostly I didn't like it, but I cannot say I'm sexualy abused.

I remember a woman sitting face to face to me in a train. All the time she was staring at my face. I felt very uncomfortable. When she left, she smiled at me and touched my knee.

Once I went to my regular barbershop for a haircut. Sitting in the barberchair and wrapped in a blanket I felt the barbers genitals against my knee. At first I thought it was an accident. He kept pressing his genitals against my knee, so I knew he did it on purpose. I didn't say anything and let it happen, but it was my very last visit to that barbershop. Is this a sexual abuse? Maybe but not grave.

As a teenager I was a wanted babysitter. I liked and like children. Had to take care they went to bed in time, got payed and could do my homework. There is one time I'll never forgett. That evening I was the babysitter of a young boy, about 6 years old. When it was his bedtime I sent him upstairs to prepair himself for the night. He would call me when he was ready. When I came he had brushed his teeth and was dressed in his pyjamas. We talked and I told him to jump into his bed. He lifts the blankets jumps into his bed and keeping up the blankets and putting with fast moves his hand at his side on the matrass he askes me: "Do you come with me in my bed?"

For a second I was totaly confused. That sweet boy invited me to join him in his bed. What could be the consequences? I got afraid to cross a border. Could this lead to pedosexuality? "No, you have to sleep alone." "But can you stay here until I am asleep?" "OK, yes I can." And I set down in a chair watching the young lad falling asleep.

I must have been about 16-17 when I stayed with friends. The oldest son of the family is off my age, the youngest son is 11 years younger. This child sits on my lap. I'm reading him a story. I like him and he likes me. The warm pressure of his body on my lap causes me an erection. I feel uneasy, what does this mean?

I'm 19 and on a party. An unatrarctive girl askes me for a dance. It is the first time I dance close with a girl. I get huge hardon. "Do I have to take her as my girlfriend? Do I have to marry her? What does this mean?"

As a teenager sexuality and erotic feelings can be so confusing.

Later I knew I did prefer sex with men on a base of equality. Before you are at that piont, there could have happen so many things that will determinate your further life.

So I'm aware I could have developed myself into a pedosexual, or an unhappy husband seeking his sexual pleasures outdoors in parks or public toilets.

"Who is free of sins may throw the firts stone."

I wasn't short.

Peter47-NL (imported) wrote: Fri May 15, 2009 4:24 am There are allready so many things said in this thread and I can add many words and stories as well.

I'll try to be short.

It was in the early sixties that a boy was killed in the woods by a man near the town where we used to live. I remember the conversation between my parents and one of their friends. The friend: "That man has to get castrated." My parents: "No, that is not a good idea, such a man needs help."

Thank you Mom and Dad!!!

Thanks Peter,

I like to make one comment on you posting(I do like your posting!)

If I ever kill a child, be it because of my sexual desires, or even driving drunk,

I will need help........

and I will be waiting for that "HELP" on my knees.

loveU

Jean