randy (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:50 pm my ticket in paradise was already paid for. my act will not glorify me. i will be held to a higher standard of righteousness.

I find that interesting because I thought God will judge us. I did not know your will superseded His.

tugon (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:53 pm I find that interesting because I thought God will judge us. I did not know your will superseded His.

My will is inline with God's as expressed thru the bible. So let’s get our bible out and see what God says about judgment. God will not judge His children. You can not earn salvation, is it a gift. Ephesians 2:8 for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2.9 ‘Not of works, lest any man should boast.’ So knowing that.... there will be no judgment to see if you have received this gift or not. You simply have or have not. I have.

Having received God's free gift by faith; I already know I will be with Christ forever. Judgment is not something I will go thru. John 3.17 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Romans 8.1 There is, therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 1Thessalonians 5.9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

The only judgment is to those standing at the great white throne in the book of revelations 20. These are people who believe that Jesus is not the Son of God. Colossians 3.6 for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

There is one type judgment in heaven, but only to bring your works before God. They will be tried by fire. If they were man centered they will be burned up, if they were for the glory of God, they will be refined like a precious stone. 1Cr 3:10-14

If there was a judgment of a child of God, it would look "something" like this: It would be you on the stand, guilty as sin. The Father is the judge and He pulls up your file. It would be labled "things that justifiably separate you from God." Instead of seeing the list of things you did to reject God, He would open it up and see a picture of His Son and you would be deemed "in Christ" and set free.

randy (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:40 pm What if we were neighbors, and in the middle of the night I looked over and saw that, unknown to you, your house was engulfed in flames. Would you want me to think oh they’ll be fine, then roll back over in bed? Or maybe go tap on the front door and whisper,

Slammr (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:33 pm "Well I see your house is on fire,

and that

’s fine that’s fine…I respect that…

randy (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:40 pm but my house, you see, is not on fire and well.. oh nevermind I don’t want to tell you how to live." Or would you want me to kick the door down grab you out of bed, sure it might be uncomfortable at first but I don

’t mind because I love you.

Christians usually use exaggerated analogies to get their point across and to make it all seem more sensible. But comparing an imminently life threatening situation to afterlife salvation is a bit of a stretch. You see the fire, but so does everyone else. The blind feel it. But I promise you, a vast majority do not see your heavenly overlord, and neither do I.

Randy, you make me squirm more than any besotted fire-and-brimstone preacher ever did when I was a child.

I have to ask if you 'get off' in any way, as the spittle forms and begins to fly from the corners of your rabid lips and you self-righteously put all us bad sinners in our place, as did those preachers way back when. At this point in this post I am almost 'atacking' you, I can feel that, but the last three posts from you here feel like... well.... do ya remember back in elementary school, when you were getting beat up in the playground every day at recess, you would daydream at nights, pretending you were superman, and smite the livin' bejeezus out of those bullying bastards? Isn't what your doing now just a grownups version of that?

I like the one line you put... "

randy (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:40 pm What would they be if they sat by and didn’t share the gospel with an unsaved person as they perished?

" <--- this so extremely superior assertion that everyone who has not had a bible (small b!) bashed over their heads are somehow DEADER than you irritates me more and more the older I get. So, some guy who received no relgion bullshit ever in his life, at 18 gets dragged to a youth group with a bunch of Xtians laying hands on each other and explaining the bible and he logically RUNS away.... he is more DEAD than you, right?

Pardon me, forgive me (I know you will), but...

FUCK THAT.

And the funny thing? I do, to my own chagrin, 'know' God's presence. Not believe... not cross my fingers and flip dervishly through my bible in anxious hope... I just feel comfort in the knowledge that chaos and entropy and luck are swirlled and stirred by his big ol' hand in the universes' pot.

And I don't need a has-been, ancient-morality-based, money-corrupted, political bullshit religion that refuses to update itself to tell me that.

randy (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:30 pm My will is inline with God's as expressed thru the bible. So let’s get our bible out and see what God says about judgment. God will not judge His children. You can not earn salvation, is it a gift. Ephesians 2:8 for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2.9 ‘Not of works, lest any man should boast.’ So knowing that.... there will be no judgment to see if you have received this gift or not. You simply have or have not. I have.

Having received God's free gift by faith; I already know I will be with Christ forever. Judgment is not something I will go thru. John 3.17 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Romans 8.1 There is, therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 1Thessalonians 5.9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

The only judgment is to those standing at the great white throne in the book of revelations 20. These are people who believe that Jesus is not the Son of God. Colossians 3.6 for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

There is one type judgment in heaven, but only to bring your works before God. They will be tried by fire. If they were man centered they will be burned up, if they were for the glory of God, they will be refined like a precious stone. 1Cr 3:10-14

If there was a judgment of a child of God, it would look "something" like this: It would be you on the stand, guilty as sin. The Father is the judge and He pulls up your file. It would be labled "things that justifiably separate you from God." Instead of seeing the list of things you did to reject God, He would open it up and see a picture of His Son and you would be deemed "in Christ" and set free.

Randy, you remind me why I left the church, always quoting one line or another with nothing around it. I in my youth believed John 3.16 to be the greatest verse in the bible, then I read the whole chapter, read right past it because it took on a different meaning. So sense you are such a learned soul I have a question for you,

Father, son, holey goast

Are they three beings with one purpose

or

Are they all one?

And what church do you belong?

Careful of your answer, you may very will get it wrong.

River

My mom drug me to church until age 12 when she was "disfellowshiped for smoking. Her family is all moron, eh hem "mormon" and she got a wild hair when she got married and went Jehovah's witness. One fucked up cult to another.

I spent years trying to deprogram myself and got to the point where I wanted proof for EVERYTHING and when there was none I became agnostic. As the years passed (I'm now 38) I have come to the point that I call myself atheist. I feel like I am able to stand back with a clear mind a weigh all the evidence and I am more at peace now than ever except that I have grown to absolutely HATE all religion and DESPISE those that vomit forth it's contents.

If it were within my power I would destroy all religion around the world and celebrate with great bonfires upon which all churches, bibles, crosses and such forth would burn through the night. But alas, it's just a fantasy. I figure it will take another 4-500 years to rid most of the world of religion which will collapse from truth and apathy.

BTW, am I the only one who fantasizes about burning churches when driving past?

This is done.

Very done.

And if it resurrects, I WILL bring the Wrath of Paolo into it.

Go tempt God if you like. He's a HELL of a lot more patient than I am.