For those who believe in prophecy, Israel does not NEED the USA or anyone else, for that matter. These people have been warring about for thousands of years, according to the Bible. They're never going to change, and us being involved in their mess isn't accomplishing anything. The Jewish people have survived scads of horrors, from their first wars in the days of Abraham and his caravan battling for a place to be, up until the Holocaust of WW2. If a military State as organized and thoroughgoing as the Nazis couldn't exterminate them, then I'd say a bunch of separate Muslim maniac nations who can't even stop blowing EACH OTHER up for one day stands NO chance at putting a dent in them.

unfortunately the US can not pull out now!

If we pull out of Iran now then the terrorists will take over, and they will have there own country to use as a base of operations to attack the rest of the world.

Paolo wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:27 am For those who believe in prophecy, Israel does not NEED the USA or anyone else, for that matter. These people have been warring about for thousands of years, according to the Bible. They're never going to change, and us being involved in their mess isn't accomplishing anything. The Jewish people have survived scads of horrors, from their first wars in the days of Abraham and his caravan battling for a place to be, up until the Holocaust of WW2. If a military State as organized and thoroughgoing as the Nazis couldn't exterminate them, then I'd say a bunch of separate Muslim maniac nations who can't even stop blowing EACH OTHER up for one day stands NO chance at putting a dent in them.

Well, the Nazis were not all that bright.

It was the German industrialists,scientists and people that made the German Juggernaught of WWII.

The Nazis were a big bunch of misfits and "ne'er-do-goods" who managed to corner the reins to the German government during a time of unrest that resulted from the punitive Versalles agreement that was the Armistice that ended WWI.

If the world had not tried to punish Germany for WWI then WWII may have never happened. Of course, there would have still been the Japanese to deal with and their invasion of China.

Hard telling who would have came up with the Atomic Bomb first, then. As isolationist as America tried to be after WWI it most likely would not have been the U.S.

Both the world and its history would have been very, very different.

Sooner or later a war had to happen

In addition, the modern state of Israel was forged in the Gas Ovens of Concentration Camps (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bodies-Buchenwald-C ... egoryZ48QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) of the Nazis.

THIS MAP (http://history1900s.about.com/library/h ... /blmap.htm) of Concentration Camps and Death Camps is from the CIA. However, as THIS SITE (http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/belsen.html)will attest, Bergen-Belsen was also a Death Camp, as were ALL OF THEM! (http://www.trinity.wa.edu.au/plduffyrc/ ... ocaust.htm)

Yes, make no mistake about it. the modern state of ISRAEL was forged in these places. Expect NO reasonableness from them, nor cowardice, nor timidity.

MERCY is NOT in the vocabulary of those who have this heritage.

Remember, the Inquisition was in the 13th century for the most part. THIS HAPPENED IN THE 1940's. (http://www.remember.org/camps/) The pain and memories are still fresh...

Poalo you seam to have studied the bible some but you left something out in what you have said.It is also written if anyone is against Israel they are against God also so I say if we ever abandion Israel we just could be on the wrong side.

Sag,

I would think that this point you make, while a good one, was pretty much inferred. I simply mean that Israel can and will go on, as prophesied, right up until THE END - with or without anyone's help. Perhaps our involvement is part of that; perhaps not. I am not suggesting we turn "against" Israel. I am stating that they are more than capable of taking care of themselves - they've been at it since Abraham packed up his caravan, you know.

A-1,

Much as I hate to think about it, eventually, someone with a Koran in hand is going to piss off Israel and all Hell (literally) is going to break loose over there.

There are already signs in place - for instance - the fighting of Westernization of younger folks in Muslim countries. The whole clothing/hairstyle thing in Iran, for one.

Israel is determined, yes, as you state. However, it could well be that the masses in the Muslim states could be growing fed up with all the fundamentalist backwards bullsh*t. In such environments, traitors abound. A divided enemy is one readily conquered by those who are determined.

My money's on the Israelites, complete with their attitude of Biblical proportions.

sag111 (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:03 am Poalo you seam to have studied the bible some but you left something out in what you have said.It is also written if anyone is against Israel they are against God also so I say if we ever abandion Israel we just could be on the wrong side.

While the bible does have moments of truth, but it was still written by man to control man. The person writing or even translating can put there own spin on what is said or not said. In other words if an Arab had that anyone against us is against god would you have believed it.

The bible was compiled in three distinct stages...

Stage one - The Jews had been captured by Byblon and needed something that would keep the people together thus the five books of Mosses were compiled and written.

Stage Two - The Romans conquered Israel so once again they needed something they could hold on to in order to keep the community together, and thus the rest of the old testament was compiled and written.

Stage Three - Emperor Constantine decided he wanted one complete bible. What would become the new testament was just a pile of paper, and they conflicted with each other. So Constantine gathered all the Bishops together and said "I want one book," and he gave them money to do it. Thus the Council of Nicaea was born. So these Bishops had to come up with something they all agreed to, and they decided what would be preached, believed and taught.

To top all that none of the stories were written at the time of the events! They were all written some one thundered to two thundered years after the fact. You try witting about your grandparents lives, and all you have it is stories that have been passed around person to person for along time. If you have taken 20 people and have them pass it around then you know what you said will come out twisted.

So yes there are grains of truth in the Bible, but it has been heavily edited by people that just wanted to control others, and not necessarily the word of God.

IbPervert (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:51 pm So yes there are grains of truth in the Bible, but it has been heavily edited by people that just wanted to control others, and not necessarily the word of God.

jenny (imported) wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:45 am .................................................. .................................................. ..

I personally think a lot of people translate bits of there holly books of what ever religion, to suit there personal belief's, and a lot of the bad guys use it to provoke violence in the name of religion:(

jenny (imported) wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:45 am .................................................. ............

jenny (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:44 pm ...................................... ..

I personally think a lot of people translate bits of there holly books of what ever religion, to suit there personal belief's, and a lot of the bad guys

use it to provoke violence in the name of religion:(

YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN!

sag111 (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:03 am Poalo you seam to have studied the bible some but you left something out in what you have said.It is also written if anyone is against Israel they are against God also so I say if we ever abandion Israel we just could be on the wrong side.

Just a clarification.

Most of the participants here in the E.A. I find to be well-educated in various forms of Christianity and I sincerely believe that fact had a part in getting us all screwed up enough to be obsessed with this web site and message board. (You listening, Jesus? )

Anyway, should you go poking in the "Good Book" around the 38th Chapter of Eziekel, looking for answers about Armageddon, remember, "the Merchants of Tarshish" is England, and "the young Lions thereof" is America and other former British colonies such as Australian and probably India.

Between the book of Eziekel and the book of Daniel--If memory serves the 12th chapter, but don't hold me to that--- an arguably accurate picture may be seen of Armageddon. Revelations is rather "out there" and interpretation of it is not easy at all and debatable no matter what your beliefs about it.

I never read the Koran. I don't plan to read it, ether.