Tragic story! I wonder the coincidence the doctor's name was "Money". Society is very label and role orientated, and so sadly there is such damage from it. Why can't we accept that people are not so easily compartmentalized in nice tidy boxes? That in fact those that can't be contained are what makes the human experience so incredible to be a part of? Love the freak, God knows, I am glad someone loves this one.
When you are young and have not yet experienced puberty and it's plusses and minuses, it would be too soon to an individual or society to choose pre-puberty voluntary surgical castration.
Once you finally experience puberty you are then in a position to know the before and after, the pros and cons.
Having lived thru puberty and far beyond that stage, I know that if I could go back in time I would choose pre-puberty surgical castration for myself. However neither society, the law, nor myself could know this during my pre-puberty years.
I lived my entire life, long before I knew anyone else had such feelings, long before the internet, knowing I desired and needed to be rid of my balls so that I could be rid of my sexuality. I still have not achieved surgical castration but at least I have finally achieved sexual neutrality via full chemical suppression of my aging natural low T level. (siterone)
I would never presume that anyone should choose pre-puberty castration or that it should be chosen for them. We just have to do life one second at a time and work towards each new second and do the best we can.
Well Money was at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore; the Reimers were from Canada; and I'll take your word on the English connection; so this seems to not have been confined to one country. Yeah, serious people actually believed in the 1960s and 1970s that nurture could always trump nature, even down to the point of thinking that boys can be arbitrarily turned into girls, or that the culture of poverty could be eliminated by giving people money. Teachers and shrinks still sometimes act like this, down to the point of banning any kind of competitive behavior or mildly rough play in schools.
There's still a bit of this belief out there, but the biological basis of identity and behavior is very interesting...and VERY politically incorrect to talk about...though the pendulum is swinging back somewhat. Yes, dumb parents have dumb kids; parents with a 'bit of the gay' often have gay kids; and gender identity can vary from physical reality in a way that seems to be hardwired. What's interesting is when gender identity gets hardwired into something that's not the usual M or F.
Speaking from personal experience, I think that there are obvious cases where a M2F or M2E or a F2* identity can be established from an early age, but there's the obvious issue of parents. How do we set up a system where gender-variant kids get the help they need? Picture a situation where there's a young scared M2E boy who just can't tell his parents because they won't understand even though they're otherwise reasonable loving people...so then the boy goes through puberty and spends the next 15 or so years trying to figure out what to do next, knowing that he'll be dependent on testosterone all his life...still scared as hell until he finally makes the jump, knowing that he still can't be fully honest with everyone, but at least he can be honest with himself.
I like mrt's proposal of chemical-then-wait-a-while since this is likely to be less scary to parents, and they're the ones that we have to get on board. I know of one or two anecdotal cases of M2E boys who were SO enterprising that they got what they wanted at an early age, but this is pretty unusual. The point of his proposal, I think, is to make it possible for young M2Es to be able to even talk about this and to deal with this at the appropriate age. It's hard even for young gay boys to bring up THAT subject, so we need to somehow encourage those who need help to come forward.
Once an untreated M2E does go through puberty and testosterone dependence sets in, I do suggest waiting a while (until the early to mid-20s at least) as the physical and mental changes kind of settle down. Transitioning post-puberty requires a very strong sense of confidence and identity and mental focus, not to mention judgment and the ability to deal with serious tradeoffs. There are also the usual life changes that happen around this time, though about the worst thing that can happen is for a gay M2E boy to jump into a heterosexual marriage. Treatment would have to be decided on a case by case basis, I think, since the tradeoffs post-puberty are very serious ones.
Does a male need to be gay to desire M2E ? What about straight M2E?
While I have always been gay since day 1 of puberty, I always think that had I been straight and interested in women they would have been enough to drive me to desire M2E.
In a utopian society there could be an argument for extracting healthy sperm cells from a male just as starts to produce them, storing them for future use, and then castrating the male.
Testosterone filled men just seem to keep making a mess of the world. A world with men without balls and use of artificial insemination (from healthy sperm) to continue the species, while certainly controversial, just seems like it could have many positive benefits (especially in reducing rape in other types of sexual violence.......let alone perhaps wars).
Testosterone replacement drugs would probably become more in demand than heroine so dealing with and controlling cheaters might become a new issue to deal with.
Well I have to disagree with your concept of men full of Testosterone. I think that testosterone is blamed for a lot of behavior thats just not correct. I've been at low levels and was a poster boy for mental depression. I've had a tad too much and got an inkling of what people who truly abuse it feel with roid rage. But "normal" or rather average levels make me (I think) a pretty nice guy and give me the capacity to function.
I think the idea of regular castration and sperm removal is too much Sci Fi
As to the question of "non medical" castrations. I think since this does not include what I think are medical reasons such as GID (Transexualism), Orchialgia etc that what we are talking about is fetish or kink castration and in my opinion the proper age for that is never. Ditto people who want their arms / legs removed for thrills.
JustAGuy (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:19 pm
Okay, what do you all think the youngest a guy should be before he can be legally castrated for reasons other than medical reason? Like if he wants to be castrated at a young age do you think the boy should be allowed to have it done?
Its been a while since I have been on here.
Oh and I know its a bit late but Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's.
I am not sure.
Personally, I wanted to be cut when I was 10 as much as I want it now, and I would have appreciated to have the opportunity. But this is me, other people would probably regret deeply to have been cut without being able to reconsider the idea in a more advanced stage of development. I think it should be decided on an individual basis.
There has been quite a few different opinions on this thread. I think that if the boy or man is thoroughly informed of all the risks and benefits of it then I do not think there should be an age limit, but if I would make the limit I would say 10 or older. By the age of 10 I think the person would know what they wanted in this aspect given they have all the information.
I didn't know I was interested in castration until I was in my 20's and I didn't realize I wanted castration until I was in my 30's. I was castrated in my 60's. Most of the time it was a low priority for me. I was married, I had children, I had a very active sex life and all kinds of other things going on in my life. Looking back, I think I should have had it done when I first knew I wanted it and had the opportunity. I also see where it would have been good to have it done even earlier such as in my early 20's or even in my late teens, although I question if I would have been emotionally ready at that time. --FLO--
Having been dragged through the proverbial mud and blood and financial wasteland of having helped raise five (5) boys - and #6 just came along last year - I've had plenty of experience in dealing the issues of diapers, puberty, male genitals, sexual identity, malfunctions of the male genitals, and even injuries to them.
First off, none of our gang of thugs ever exhibited signs of gender dysphoria in any way, shape, or form. They were all 100% male all the way to the bone. In the case of Kim, the youngest transexual recently discussed - we never had an issue like that. HOWEVER, if #6 should exhibit any signs of this nature that prove to not be a passing fad, I will step in and intervene with his redneck parents.
I have no problem with the administration of drugs such as depo-$-lupron to delay the onset of genetically (XY) induced puberty. In fact, I support it, up to the point where "eunuchoid features" like macroskeletalism may start to become an issue. By then, you've got to decide, and be able to see it coming.
I also have no problem with an XY-child being given estrogen to begin transition, IF and only IFF (that's a math term, 'IFF') he has believed himself to be a girl since early childhood. As for surgery, such as castration only, I would not support this act below age 16 for an absolute minimum. As I said, if "little Billy" starts wanting dolls and wearing dresses at age 2 or 3, then yep, there's gonna be some careful monitoring going on.
I have had a couple of experiences where I had serious discussions (with the parents' blessing) with boys who raised the issue of castration. All fantasy aside. These were boys who exhibited no female traits whatsoever. They played baseball, football, you name it. They played with toy trucks and BB guns. Violent little monsters, in fact, just like you'd expect.
The main issue, which I immediately went for, was they had no idea what testicles were for. Once this was cleared up, the idea of being castrated suddenly didn't sound quite so good to them. Granted, I am not a trained therapist, but I do have several child psychology courses with good marks! Once a boy understands that his testicles aren't just targets for a wild baseball or something for a buddy to punch, their outlook changes rapidly.
This is where the understanding of gender identity issues comes into play.
I also don't believe that any of them that I talked to showed MtE signs, either. Of course, only my personal experience in not identifying with the "stereotypical male role model" served as my basis for this conclusion. These boys had older brothers, as well as fathers that I deemed "competent." (And that takes a LOT for me to give a father a passing grade.) In the end, they wanted to turn out just like their older male role models. Had any of them expressed doubts, I would not have had a problem with recommending to their parents to seek more professional counseling, even up to the point of delaying puberty.
To only one mother that I know very well did I confess, "I personally do not identify as a male, but I have ZERO desire to be a woman." She took it rather well. I was worried about her husband, for a while...I hope she didn't slip any androcur into his coffee!
