I suppose it would work but still I'm wondering about the effects of the alcohol and acetic acid in your blood system especially if it was so localized and particularly if you are of Asian decent and have the ALDH2 gene.

Well I've had a little bit of help from my boyfriend in this department; I would never be able to pull this off on my own because of my phobia of large pointy things. In my own case we've done it 7 or 8 times with fairly large injections each time, starting at 10 ml each and moving down to roughly 5; the first time, which was a double round two nights in a row, was truly debilitating (couldn't leave the house and looked like one of those freaky silicone sack dudes). Oddly enough we weren't able to push my T levels much below 200 and they came in once at 312; we had to get me down to eunuch levels through the old tried and true standby Siterone before any doctor would pay attention to the situation.

Then this week at a T level of 78 (6 months later, exactly) I got the doctor to prescribe T (the artificial stuff is already having a MUCH better effect on me than the natural stuff, in my opinion). Now it's convincing him to remove these nonfunctional orbs of pain. I have no use for the things and they're obviously pretty gnarly, but German doctors won't remove things unless they're on fire, and even then, they might just tell you to jump in a lake and call them in two weeks....

Does anyone have any advice as to convincing doctors to remove heavily damaged testicles? I'm gonna push the "They're useless, painful, and should be gone, and there's a small chance of something cancerous or autoimmune happening" approach but I'm not that certain it will work. The current doctor seems pretty sympathetic but hesitant as well; I think that he'll take some convincing.

My summary of alcohol injections: They got me part of the way there, but I'm not there yet, and the injections do hurt quite a bit. The upside: Still better than any alternative that's available to me.

devi (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:18 pm I suppose it would work but still I'm wondering about the effects of the alcohol and acetic acid in your blood system especially if it was so localized and particularly if you are of Asian decent and have the ALDH2 gene.

Alcohol injection is a standard treatment for hepatoma (primary liver cancer).

Mind you, that's under medical supervision. The alcohol is injected directly into the tumour to kill it.

graylayer02 (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:56 pm In my own case we've done it 7 or 8 times with fairly large injections each time, starting at 10 ml each and moving down to roughly 5; the first time, which was a double round two nights in a row, was truly debilitating (couldn't leave the house and looked like one of those freaky silicone sack dudes).

10ml? WOW! That is actually a really good way to attempt suicide. Listen there are no experts in this field, but... if you inject too much it will reflux up the vas deferens and into the prostate. Killing your prostate might not be that bad (except that it could cause an infection). The most probable outcome is that you will scar off the vas the first time, and subsequently cause a fistula (un-natural connection between two or more organs/structures) somewhere along the vas. Considering that the vas lies close to several major arteries, veins, nerves, bladder, and intestines, it could be really detrimental.

That said, how much should you inject at a time? I don't know. The safe answer is none. Normal male testicles range in size from 14ml to approx 30ml with an average of 18ml. So if your testicles are 30ml and you are injecting 10ml you are adding 1/3 (33%) the normal volume (or assuming 20ml that would be 50%), which my best guess is too much. Most of the writings on this matter have had people injecting 2 - 3 ml at a time. If we assume they started out at 20ml then they are injecting 10-15%. I don't know if this is safe, but I have not heard of adverse reactions at this dose. One should also adjust down the dosage as the testicles shrink. You can look online for charts that estimate testicular volume.

Again as always I will state that if you inject anything into your body you take your life into your own hands. Please do not copy anything you read here or elsewhere just because you read that someone said it works. Do research know the facts then make your own decisions.

One last caveat repeated damage to any tissue (ie repeated injections of alcohol) can cause tissue to become hyperplastic (ie cancer). Think before you do.

domj........ (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:28 am I don't understand the point of wanting to be a eunuch... i mean, slaves were eunuchs so they didn't get the Mrs up the duff... why would you want to be one now Confused

Is it to separate yourself from the human race by not breeding?

I don't get it.

to be honest here it baffles me tho I am wondering what the benifits will be, and i am wondering if it will give me a new direction if i have my gonads removed.

please help.

Well, number one, not every male on this planet intends or desires to "breed" so there is your first bit of confusion. I have no idea how many of the men here are gay, but it's a high percentage I suspect. In some of those cases, these men feel they are already separated from "the human race" as you put it. Breeding is only one function of being human, and quite honestly it isn't a universal desire or for that matter a universal capability (you've never heard of sterile people? Or, are they separate from the human race also?).

What direction do you mean? Do you mean you'd become something other than what you are?

nonuts (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:45 am Well, number one, not every male on this planet intends or desires to "breed" so there is your first bit of confusion. I have no idea how many of the men here are gay, but it's a high percentage I suspect. In some of those cases, these men feel they are already separated from "the human race" as you put it. Breeding is only one function of being human, and quite honestly it isn't a universal desire or for that matter a universal capability (you've never heard of sterile people? Or, are they separate from the human race also?).

What direction do you mean? Do you mean you'd become something other than what you are?

Well said, but I would add that there are many of us here (straight in my case) that have already had children (5 so far). I think I have done my job to populate the planet. If I chose to castrate myself (and my wife agrees) then it is my prerogative. I don't believe it will make me less of a man, it will make me the man that I want to be.

saywhat (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:16 pm 10ml? WOW! That is actually a really good way to attempt suicide.

One last caveat repeated damage to any tissue (ie repeated injections of alcohol) can cause tissue to become hyperplastic (ie cancer). Think before you do.

There are no experts? But, yet you make these kinds of frightening, accusative, and hysterical statements?

The main problem I see with this thread is there is conversation about all sorts of things, there is no focus on one thing. The discussion here was ethyl alcohol, and yet experiences with lactic acid, and home made "chem cast" have been added to the mix as though they are comparative or even relevant. They are not.

Lactic acid is an acid, as acids do, they don't stop their action until they have become inert by dilution. Dilution is a result of it eating its way through whatever is there, until it reaches saturation. If one were to assume this would stop at say the wall of the testis, and not continue to eat it's way though until it was fully depleted, then one would be an idiot. So, point number one: Lactic Acid is NOT Alcohol, they do not have any common characteristics other than both being liquids.

Lactic acid remains active until it is diluted to inert levels.

Alcohol is metabolized by the body, assuming one's liver function is good enough to allow them to have an alcoholic beverage.

Chem-Cast (not to be confused with chemical castration drugs for temporary castration) was a chemical that was used for a short time in livestock (I believe it's out of production, since the cost/benefit wasn't competitive with other available methods). Even if the the discussion were about the chemical that was manufactured and sold for vet use, it was never approved for human use, never tested or researched for humans (there's really not a huge market for human castration, surprisingly enough). That this guy mixed up his own, based on some recipe he assumed he had correct, outside of a sterile process, and without ensuring total sterility, was begging for an infection. Injecting ANYTHING without using basic sterile precautions is asking for trouble.

Using a chemical that was never intended for human use, that was not made using sterile processes, with an unknown chemical equation (recipe) will very likely cause a serious infection.

Alcohol, especially pure medical grade alcohol (yes it exists, and is used in humans for the treatment of tumors and other procedures). Is sterile in its basic form, still the risk of infection exists, due to the process of injection, which is why anyone not knowing exactly what they are doing, should NEVER attempt ANY injection.

Finally, hyperplasia no one knows how cells divide, and reproduce as a result of inflammation or injury. There are many theories, but no absolutes. That it would be a causative for cancer is a real theoretical stretch. That alcohol is used to kill liver tumors suggests, this risk isn't that great. So, I don't think this does anything but add fear to the discussion.

Now, FEAR is a very healthy thing to have in this discussion, but let's try to keep the fear's relevant to the topic.

Number One: Never

Danielle (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:39 pm inject anything into your body, unless you are

100% confident you know what you are doing, 100% confident you are using a sterile product, and you know 100% what the risks and dangers are, and know what symptoms to be on the look out for that would indicate medical care.

Number Two: To be completely safe, just DON'T do it!

Number Three: Sadly the medical community doesn't support the desires of many here, they do desperate things, some of them foolish. If you decide to ignore number 2, please, please always have someone around to help, even if it's just to get you medical care.

OK, let's not let the bad experiences of some or the over-the-top replies of others let us lose focus on what this thread is about. I definitely wish to thank the management for being open-minded about this topic. It is definitely an emotional one for those involved, and the goal here is to share information so people DON'T do something terribly stupid and end up in the ER or worse. There are no clean 'n' easy surgical options on the continent where I live, and going to a cutter or doing it myself would be FAR worse.

There does need to be a conversation with respect to dosage and technique since these things are so important and we have a lot to learn from each other. 10 ml is a large dose which I did once; more typical is something in the 4 or 5 ml range. To mitigate against the stuff migrating around too fast, I was banded, and we kept an eye on the color and feeling of the surrounding tissues and skin. It is also very important to use a small needle, draw back first to make sure that no blood supply is involved, and NOT to force it at all. Also immediately stop at any sign of something strange; the membrane of the nut should be very good at holding in the alcohol and it is very elastic. In my case we'd anesthetize the cords first, so any sharp jolt of pain was a bad sign. We actually stopped one injection in progress on this basis; something was just not right.

After my first and second doses which were one day apart, they swelled up to be VERY large and the pain three days later was debilitating. Good thing I live in Germany where showing up to work is optional. They took a month and a half to go down to something slightly smaller than original, with a smaller round of injections in between. That got me down to 191 T, which my particular urologist did not think was low for a 30 year old man. Another round or two and a month and a half later, I came in at 312 T. Aaaaaaaaaagh. Other rounds of injections became far less debilitating but they're still very unpleasant.

With regard to the long-term risks of this sort of thing, the goal is to convince a doctor to remove them. I'm on testosterone therapy now, after a bit of cheating to get the T test below the magic number of 160 (my adrenals seem to be very active). So now they have NO use at all. There does seem to be a difference between countries in what a doctor would be willing to do; American doctors would at least think of removing a painful infarcted testicle while a German would tell you to go away unless it's obviously cancerous. If things get particularly bad I'll have to go to Thailand and fake some gender issues or, God forbid, get some help from a friend. I hope it doesn't come to this.

In conclusion, here's a list of what I think is important if you're going to attempt this.

1. Sterile technique! Infections suck.

2. Using high-quality ethyl alcohol, nothing of lower quality than everclear. Medical-grade is the best as it's used for killing tumors and has very few impurities.

3. Use a small needle; make sure you didn't hit the blood supply; and go very slowly. Banding them is not a bad idea either.

4. Anesthetizing the cord will make it easier to figure out if anything is happening outside of the nut, and definitely take it slow and listen to your body in any case.

5. Dosage-wise, your mileage will vary. There's a tradeoff among effectiveness, safety, and medium-term pain. 10 ml in my case was quite a bit; half that would be less effective but also would allow me to ride my bike to work again two days later.

6. Make sure you have a good GP and urologist lined up. As a 30 year old guy in a strange country I did not have either lined up; my first urologist's experience in my life was...odd...to say the least. The bedside manner was very Prussian, especially with the prostate check. I had to switch GPs too because my other GP was just not qualified to talk about male health. The current one is pretty good.

7. Be patient. I've heard stories of guys who've injected themselves and gotten doctors to remove them a few weeks later. I'd be lucky if I can get them removed, ever. Removal is the ultimate goal in my case, and it's easy to let this drive me nuts. This might mean that I have to keep injecting them to keep them from trying to grow back as I develop a plan B, but this sounds horrible too.

8. You should feel a bit of fear about this. It's completely healthy and it's a sign that you care about your life.

nonuts (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm There are no experts? But, yet you make these kinds of frightening, accusative, and hysterical statements?

Well, yes... There are no experts on castration of humans via alcohol or injection of any other chemicals into the testicles. And, as a medical doctor I think my statements are appropriate.

First, I was not insinuating that the alcohol could or would burn through the tissue as lactic acid (or other caustics) can. I was stating that fistulas can form. Alcohol is a sclerosing agent. What that means is that it will dehydrate the cells and cause them to be damaged beyond repair. When those cells die off they leave holes which are either filled in by new scar tissue or in some cases stay patent by puss and debris. Sometimes these holes become fistulas (open passages between two or more organs). This is caused sometimes from infections as well, which could also be caused by injections.

Second, The vas deferens lie in areas that are very close to important structures. If you get a fistula from the vas to an artery the result could be deadly.

nonuts (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm Finally, hyperplasia no one knows how cells divide, and reproduce as a result of inflammation or injury. There are many theories, but no absolutes. That it would be a causative for cancer is a real theoretical stretch. That alcohol is used to kill liver tumors suggests, this risk isn't that great. So, I don't think this does anything but add fear to the discussion.

Nobody knows how cells divide? Please tell my biology professors and my genetics teachers. They are sadly mistaken that they think that they know how cells divide. I am sure they will tell you a little different. Please do a little reading prior to making statements like the above, there are more than just theories, there are basic scientific truths.

It is well known in the medical society that repeated damage is a causative agent for cancer. If you don't believe it look it up. Sun damage is the number one cause of skin cancer. How about liver cancer caused by heavy drinking? Yes due to repeated insults from overloading the liver. So I hope you can see that my statements are from sound medical judgment.

Liver tissue and testicular tissue are two seriously different tissues. Liver tissue dies all the time and replaces itself, where testicular tissue is not designed to do so.

Therefore, please don't accuse me of making "

nonuts (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm frightening, accusative, and hysterical statements,

" just because I have given advice in reason to my level of education. I believe that 10ml is too much volume to safely inject into a testicle (at least for most people).

Caveat emptor: Again as always please don't copy things you have seen here or anywhere else unless you have done the research and have made every attempt at being safe.

Everything I have learned in my medical training goes against performing self castration by any means. Please do not use any post that I make as medical reasoning to do anything of the such. Please do not PM me for medical advise, as I cannot legally give advice on this subject as I am not a urologist.

I am sorry to the learned doctor here, yes clearly you should have much more experience and medical training than I do. My mistake also for not being clear we were talking about how damaged cells divide, since it would depend on the cells, and how they were damaged, there would be no absolutes?

You said attempt suicide. That was not advice, and it was deeply insensitive, and certainly accusative.

Repeated sun damage causing skin cancer is well known, however, it is not established that the cause is due to the repeated damage or the repeated and excessive exposure to UV, or both.

Since 80% of liver cancer is caused by cirrhosis, and 40% of the people who die of cirrhosis each year have a history of alcohol abuse, there is for sure a link, but it's far from being caused from heavy drinking since only 10-20% (American Liver Foundation, who can't seem to narrow it down much more than with a huge margin of error) of heavy drinkers will develop cirrhosis.