mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:50 am Yep. I had a insane high reading when they drew blood from where some of the Androgel was rubbed in. My doctor just did a retest.

Great on being open to the idea of Testicular Implants vrs the scrotum removal. I know a lot of guys would just as soon never have any reminder of them but trust me they won't put anything in that can have the potential to give you that "hit in the nuts" feeling. And while some people post about them feeling "alien" I really like my pair. They feel like me... And yeah, its probably stupid male ego to be worked up about your "pair" but.... It sure made it easier for me to have the old ones removed knowing I would have an adult sized pair to replace them. Mine were not quite "beans" but pretty close and on the way to exactly what you describe.

HCG. I talked to my Doctor. Her take then was that this is not a drug tested for long term use. There was some serious thinking that it would damage the part of the brain that regulates all hormones which frankly scares the hell out of me. Replacing Testosterone is enough work. Doing ALL the others?

I had my retest done and it came out in a more normal range for me, my DHT however was a little high but the refrence is for 30+ so how do you rate a guy at 24, any way things are still going well.

It is not a cheap treatment, My PCP has been wanting to see me every month as she had helped initiate it, however insurance issues might sloe that down, my main concern is having TRT, as this is what caused muscle pain anxiety etc to begin with.

She has been a good Physician though as she has ordered the tests needed, but I am not sure if she is going to continue or what she is going to do.

She always asks have you seen your Dr, or how is your HRT going, the first time so was not so eager however this last time how often do you see him how are things going, are you progressing. I am like yea.

She thought 300 was a good number when I tested at the top of the scale on natural hormones so my Physician who treats me and provides the TRT said no it needs to be increased, as I want to be back to as normal as possible.

I have still had problems with my weight and being slim and muscular, however I guess I have been losing some fat and things have been going back into shape.

It is hard to find a good Physician at least I have one really good TRT/HRT Physician and a so far decent genuine caring PCP, who was reluctant to start a TRT treatment program, but went for it.

At least now I am a patient of the Physician who treats it, so I do not have to go through her any more.

I use AndroMen 5% T-cream to maintain my testosterone levels.

It is bio-identical, $100 for a 50gm tube, no alcohol stink or related skin rashes, no taxes as it is imported from Australia, is pharmaceutical quality, no prescription so if you know your daily dose you don't need to pay for a doctors visit.

I have used it for a few years and it works really well for me. Maintains my testosterone levels very well.

This thread has a lot of good questions, answers, and info. I just ran across some additional information that seems like it would be good to add to this thread.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threa ... 37830.html

the happened to me in this sequence:

Early 2008; I experienced testosterone withdrawal symptoms (andropause or male menopause) but I didn't know what was happening and tissue that is outside of testicles became very painful to the touch. Standing, sitting was painful. Running was impossible. . During a physical I mentioned my symptoms, very tired, impossible to concentrate, achy joints, etc.; Dr. ran Testosterone test. I was way low. Doctor prescribed Testim.

Shortly after that I experienced testicle swelling and major league pain.

After a stint on antibiotics, swelling subsided, major pain subsided, but I was left with constant pain in tissues that surround testicles.

Since then I experimented with double dose, half dose, no dose of Testim over many months. Testicle tissue pain remained pretty constant, sometimes getting worse.

The past few months while on testim my testicles have been getting smaller, harder, and numb and the tissue outside them still hurt even with the slightest touch.

July 31 this year was my last dose of Testim (regular 1 tube dose)

Aug 1 I started taking Siterone.

Aug 2 The pain in my testicles diminished dramatically.

Aug 3 The pain in my testicles is practically non-existent.

How can this be?

Pre-testim, I had testicle tissue pain.

On or off testim, I had pain.

Two days of Siterone and pain is almost completely gone.

I certainly can not claim that Siterone will get rid of anyone's testicle pain as each person could have many different conditions, and I can not claim for absolutely 100% positive that Siterone got rid of my pain, but it easy to suspect that it helped. Coincidences do happen, but this seems like too big of a coincidence.

Talk about getting a bonus. Looking forward to reduction in testosterone, libido, and continued absence of pain. (also looking forward to testicle atrophy continuing; they shrank while on testim, hopefully they will continue to shrink while on Siterone).

I'm a biological female, so obviously my perspective on testosterone supplementation in general and AndroGel brand in particular is going to be different from most people's here.

First let me say this: Before ever putting me on any T in the first place, my doctor warned me that an almost inevitable side effect of testosterone supplementation would be that my body would stop making even the small amount it used to make and thus I would have to keep using a supplement forever in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms.

(Yes, women's bodies make some testosterone naturally; on the same testosterone-level test which when given to men indicates they need treatment if their level is below 300, women's "normal" range is something like 40-80. There's a "no-man's-land" -- so to speak -- between 80 and 200 or 300 that no one "should" have that level, at least as far as adult men and women go.)

So it seems like it should be possible for a man who thinks he has "too much" testosterone to treat this condition by first going on supplements, in order to get his body to stop making so much. His body "learns" that it only needs to make X amount in order to maintain the Z level it expects, and he can then remove the Y amount he was supplementing in order to reduce his total testosterone. Whether this would actually work in practice I have no idea, but I would think the side effects during the first few months would be maddening for a man who felt he had too much testosterone / sex drive / aggression to begin with.

What's AndroGel like? Well, for one thing, insurance companies often refuse to cover it for patients who aren't either anatomically male, genetically male or transitioning FtM, because the FDA (United States Food & Drug Administration) currently only approves it for treatment of two conditions which both affect men only and actually requires it be labelled with warnings to prevent women from touching even a little accidentally. So far I've been lucky. Ironically, there's at least one testosterone supplement, EstraTest, which is approved for women, but it also contains estrogen supplements which I don't currently need. Nevertheless, in 2008, according to the FDA's own information, AndroGel was dispensed to some 70,000 women patients -- not nearly as many as the number of men who were prescribed it, but impressive anyway.

Testosterone in general and AndroGel in particular has several "off-label" uses, that is, conditions multiple doctors prescribe it to treat despite the FDA not yet saying that it can effectively treat that condition. Many medications have "off-label" uses in addition to the official ones and sometimes formerly "off-label" uses get formal FDA approval... but this pretty much always requires both peer-reviewed double-blind clinical trials (which are expensive to do) and one or more pharmaceutical manufacturers lobbying the FDA to add a new "indication" for the drug in question (also expensive, maybe more so).

I ought to be able to relatively easily get a prescription for AndroGel, since I have 2 different conditions which are known to respond well to testosterone supplementation, but instead I was turned down by multiple doctors over the course of several years, even when they agreed T would probably help me! (Just one of the many ways the US healthcare system is broken.) Finally my gynecologist, of all people, agreed to try me on AndroGel. I've been on it since summer 2007 -- just before my 34th birthday.

(I had made a pact with myself that I would get myself on testosterone supplements, somehow, by the time I was 35, even if I had to resort to purchasing the supplements from overseas... which I'm glad I didn't have to do for a number of reasons. Happily, I didn't even have to bring out the "big gun" when I brought the issue up with my Gyn that, if he wouldn't prescribe it for me, I would buy some on the gray market and be at risk of winding up with uneven dosages, supplements contaminated with other products, or even receive something other than testosterone entirely. I was ready to pull the "either help me or be partly responsible when the gray market fails me" card on him. I'm much happier having been able to have him prescribe it and monitor my levels so we could see what the right amount for me to put on is, since how much someone needs varies from person to person even if you're looking at, say, two intact men both 57 years old who both started with a serum level of 325.)

Like the name suggests, AndroGel is a gel. The gel is clear and contains alcohol, so you need to be careful around heat sources and avoid open flame until it dries, kind of like hair gel. I personally have never had a problem with rashes or other skin irritation (unless you count pimples from the testosterone, and I rarely have to change where I'd planned to apply the next dose due to zits) despite having very, very sensitive skin. Everyone is different, though; otherwise my sensitive skin wouldn't erupt after contact with so-called hypo-allergenic surgical-grade stainless steel (!) or most opaque lotions including sunscreen and moisturizers.

AndroGel is dispensed in one of two ways: In packets containing either 2.5g or 5g gel (which in turn contain either 25mg or 50mg testosterone, of which only about 10% is absorbed into the body, and so the effective dose is approximately 2.5 or 5mg testosterone) and which look like little blue-and-silver-foil ketchup packets, or in a pump which dispenses 1.25g gel (12.5mg testosterone, 1.25mg effective dose) each time it's pressed. Since I'm just trying to get my T levels into the "middle ground" between the adult-women's and adult-men's ranges, some trial and error showed that I only need 1.25g gel once every 2-4 days. More put my levels up into the men's range, but less caused unpleasant side effects -- ironically, mostly aggression.

Biological males (however you want to define that) typically use 5, 7.5 or 10 grams of gel every day, at least according to the dispensing guidelines. The normal starting dose for males is 5g (50mg T, effectively a 5mg dose) daily; my starting dose was 1.25mg every other day. For anyone who may need less than 25mg testosterone per dose, I strongly recommend having your doctor specify the pump rather than the packets, as it's a wasteful, imprecise pain in the ass to try to squeeze out 1/2 or 1/4 of a condiment packet!

For FtMs, AndroGel is probably not a good option, unless you're using it to even out the wildest swings in your serum levels between injections; a typical FtM using injection is getting 100mg per week (either by injecting that amount once a week or by injecting more less often), so to get the same effective dosage using gel only, he would have to slather on 15g of gel every day! That's 3 packets a day, or with the pump, each 75g pump dispenser would last only 5 days. And since gel users have to be careful to avoid skin-to-skin contact between other people and the place where they applied the gel, it would be pretty difficult to have any kind of close intimate contact with another person except perhaps by leaving their shirts on the whole time.

What AndroGel is great for is modest supplementation and relative ease of dosage adjustment. Which is probably why the FDA thinks it should be mostly for men (or eunuchs or intersexed people) who either have no testicles or whose testicles don't produce much if any androgens. Not everyone in those situations necessarily wants testosterone supplements, of course, but if you do, it's likely at least worth trying before you move on to other options.