I'm not ready to try estrogen, for now anyway, as I don't consider myself male to female, but male to eunuch. Besides, I don't have my first visi

Danya (imported) wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:37 pm t with the University of Minnesota endocrinologist

until Febrauary 11. I'm not necessarily averse to trying estrogen somewhere much further down the road.

tugon (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:14 pm Welcome to the emotional rollercoaster! Having never used chemical castration I do not know how closely my feelings post castration parallel yours from androcur. Testosterone for me seemed to have blocked many emotions and once it was out of my system all the emotions washed over me like waves. When I was happy I was happier and when something was sad I had tears to shed. I still feel things intensely but I do not show them as publicly as before.

Learning to adjust to this wider range of emotions took some time. I learned to enjoy the intense feelings and in many cases they prompted me to do good things. I found I had less depression. I am not consistently happy but I find my emotions are more appropriate to the situation. Now if I am depressed it is due to a negative event and not a state of being.

I wish you the best in adapting to all the feelings coming your way.

This was my EXACT experience with post-castration emotions. I did not and do not 8 years on use HRT. I actually find these emotions fulfilling and rewarding in many ways (they are sooooo much more intense than my "male" emotions were - both good and bad). Especially the ability to actually LOVE someone and that love not being tied to sex and sexuality.

I think in time you adapt to the emotional roller-coaster.

I'm really confused and a little down today. I took the prescribed mood stabilizer last night and this morning. My mood has indeed stabilized but I feel like I've lost something important, namely my new self. This is really bothering me. You might think the obvious solution would be to stop taking the mood stabilizer. Perhaps it really is that simple. I might succeed doing that if I exercise enough. I don't know what else to say right now. I'm just feeling totally lost and alone. These are not typical feelings for me, before or after Androcur.

one thing to remember when taking anti depression or anti stress meds and any meds in this group is to talk to your doctor about EVERYTHING you are feeling IT MAY JUST BE A TEMPORARY FEEL... BUT ONLY THE DOCTOR can tell you that .....

Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:02 pm I'm really confused and a little down today. I took the prescribed mood stabilizer last night and this morning. My mood has indeed stabilized but I feel like I've lost something important, namely my new self. This is really bothering me. You might think the obvious solution would be to stop taking the mood stabilizer. Perhaps it really is that simple. I might succeed doing that if I exercise enough. I don't know what else to say right now. I'm just feeling totally lost and alone. These are not typical feelings for me, before or after Androcur.

A couple of close friends described SSRIs in this way. They said that it was impossible to get upset or emotional for more then a short time. One said "If I'm angry and want to kill you don't worry. In 15 minutes I won't give a shit."

I think that for people who want to do harm (to others or themselves) this is a good drug. Not sure about other cases however.

This is just the take from a non medical know nothing but if you desire a life where you are "emotion based" (as I think you wish to be) then maybe Estrogen therapy is the direction you should look into. I think you were feeling some of that before you took the mood stabilizer because your Testosterone went to near zero and the Estrogen you had was a more powerful factor in wiring you.

If you have mental illness then you should by all means be looking into these drugs but if its the effect of your chemical castration I would opt out of those drugs. While there are people who report being quite well adjusted as a Eunuch many have lots of issues.

Good luck with your visit to the Doctors. Please keep us informed!

Your Chum - MrT

What I'm taking is an anticonvulsant that is also used to treat bipolar disorder. Hypomania, while not having a psychotic component like mania, is considered part of a bipolar condition. This information is from an authoritative source on the web, The US National Library of Medicine and The National Institutes of Health:

Oxcarbazepine is used alone or in combination with other medications to treat certain types of seizures in people who have epilepsy. Oxcarbazepine is in a class of medications called anticonvulsants. It works by decreasing abnormal excitement in the brain.

Bubba, I really appreciate your input, particularly your comment on how this feelilng may just be temporary. I think I told my psychiatrist everything when I saw him yesterday. I did something foolish, though, because I was feeling a little desperate for relief. I was supposed to take one tablet at night for the first three days and then two tablets twice a day. This morning, against orders, I took an additional 1/2 a tablet. Perhaps, if my body has the time to adjust to the medication in the proper way, I'd be dealing with this better. I'll stick with the proper dosage now. I'll try to talk with the doctor's nurse tomorrow to discuss this. I have a second appointment with him next Friday so I should be able to tough out any problems/concerns until I speak with him then.

Mr. T, I was hoping you'd respond . I relate to your friends' reactions to SSRIs because I used to take those. The antidepressant I'm on now is in a totally different class, has left me free of depression and has not dampened any emotions.

Yes, I do desire a life that's emotion-based. I've spent far to much of my life escaping into my intellect. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to give up the intellect part but I want to allow freer expression to the emotions that have always been there, but suppressed to an extent. About the only emotion I could work up today was a few tears that I'd lost the new me. Even that was difficult.

Any discussion of treatment involving hormones will have to wait until I see the Univ

Danya (imported) wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:37 pm of Minnesota endocrinologist for the first time

on Feb. 11. In fact, she may have a better idea than my psychiatrist as to the true cause of of my excessive feelings. She deals with transgender issues daily, my psychiatrist does not. As you suggest, they may be no more than a natural expression of low testosterone.

I realize, too, that I've been being too hard on myself. [Right now I could use a certain type of wise up note from Kristoff.] I've not exhibited one possible symptom of hypomania and that's irritability. If I reasonably look at things I can see that I've been certainly more excited than normal, way happier, more energetic, etc. I will admit that in this situation I may not be the best judge of my own behavior. From feedback from coworkers, however, I don't think I've done anything that has caused offense to anyone. My concern there was that my excessive enthusiasm might start to wear thin for some folks but that hasn't been the case with friends and coworkers. Some of these friends would have no problem letting me know if they were finding me bitchy or otherwise difficult.

I think there's a danger of being over-doctored when you're being treated by multiple physicians and therapists. In the past, I've eventually been able to sort through the opinions of multiple providers and get them all to agree on a reasonable course of action that works for me.

So, for now I'm willing to heed my psychiatrist's warning that this may be hypomania. He has by no means definitively concluded that. I'll stop behaving foolishly and get back to his recommendations for gradually increasing the dose of the mood stabilizer. I'll try to talk with his nurse tomorrow about my concerns. Doreen and I have a great relationship. I'll try really, really hard not to despair of losing the new me. I need to practice something that doesn't come easily for me, patience! . I'll keep up the

Danya (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:02 pm exercise, which in the end may make

it possible for me to stop taking the mood stabilizer all together, whether or not my emotions are tied to hypomania. Exercise is a terrific mood stabilizer that doesn't leave me with the dreaded flattened emotions effect.

I just remembered that my shrink's original idea was that the only action to take right now would be to lower the dosage of antidepressant I'm on. Higher doses of antidepressants can contribute to hypomania/mania states. He was suggesting that the decreased antidepressant dose would be all we try for the next week. I asked for the mood-stabilizer now. So, I'm not going to take it tonight. I'll exercise tomorrow and see how I'm doing. I'll simply be following his original recommendation. Hold on, the ride may start to get bumpy again from here!

Todd,

Flo and Tugon say it best with their initial replies.

This is going to take some getting used to.

Some years ago, when my testicles stopped putting out ( and so did I, for that matter! ) I experienced the same thing with emotions.

They became more intense, harder to control, and basically made me feel like someone else.

Now, in retrospect, I wouldn't change it. It just takes some getting used to.

Personally, it took me a few years and one bad round of HRT to realize it - so I got to experience it twice.

Thanks for your input, Paolo. Yes, I always agreed with Flo and Tugon. Things just seemed to be getting to be more than I could bear. I hope if I keep things in perspective and exercise, everything will be tolerable. I really don't want to change things, either, at least as long as I don't feel like a runaway train going down a steep mountain slope! .

At least two friends here have mentioned that I'm 'excited' and 'intense' and I definitely know what they mean. I do want to keep those observations in mind as I interact with new people who may have some trouble understanding what's going on.

BTW, I hope those eunuchs of yours are still guarding the plutonium and other weapons! I always say, never trust a man to do a eunuch's job.

This might sound like a dumb question Todd, but are you sleeping? I mean properly sleeping.

I found that my Cyproterone induced low testosterone caused me to feel really hot and uncomfortable at night. I didn't feel really tired, but I was aware that although I felt surprisingly calm and relaxed during the day, I didn't feel I was getting right off to sleep at night, and I wasn't remembering any dreams. I stopped taking the Cyproterone when I felt an unfamiliar depression coming on. I wasn't sure if it was because of low testosterone or because of not sleeping, but I felt a little scared of my mood so I quit taking the drug immediately. Over the following month or two I had a nasty temper and I cried over nice pieces of music, etc. My mood stabilised a little. Then came the discovery that I had become severely allergic to the cat, and when we evicted the cat my symptoms (alleregic rhinitis) started to abate and something marvellous happenned: I woke up some mornings feeling cheerful, energetic, outward looking, and eager to get on with things. And I remembered more dreams. So I'm now in a much better frame of mind than before taking Cyproterone, and I'm putting it down to the sleep I'm enjoying. I realise now that for a long time I had been suffering from sleep apnia: The allergic rhinitis was causing my airway to collapse as I drifted off to sleep and I was being woken by adrenalin which would kick in as my blood oxygen dropped. In other words - I wasn't getting enough Rapid Eye Movement sleep.

I'm blathering on about this because, although I have known for years that lack of sleep causes emotional issues, I had no idea that I was THAT short of sleep. It had crept up on me over time. When I presented my headaches to the doctor in 2001 I was told to take more paracetamol. Next time I presented myself the doctor said 'It's no wonder you have headaches, you're under a lot of stress. (About that time my father was dying and my wife had cancer so I thought 'Ok, yes, it is stressful....') What I'm trying to illustrate Todd, is that I could easily have put my headaches, mood swings, lack of perspective on life (I had all that and more. In retrospect, it's a wonder I was functioning at all) etc. down to either the stressful happenings in my life, or (more recently) I could have blamed my experiment with testosterone suppression. However, It was the cat all along. So that's a very long winded way of saying, are you SURE you're sleeping?

I also note that you did not respond (I apologise if you did and I've overlooked it) to my post, earlier in this thread, in which I told you about my psychotherapy (EMDR) experience. I realise that I probably didn't emphasise the value of this experience for me - I came away with my memory of the traumatic episode far less prominent in my mind. I can now think about that period of my life and those really horrid feelings don't well up in me. I just thought you should know that. Your psychiatrist has labelled your current mental 'condition' hypomania/mania and is prescribing drugs to control it. That's ok if you simply have a chemical imbalance of some sort - and obviously you do have a self inflicted chemical imbalance (Androcur) which all needs to be got right. But it may be a red herring, in the same way as my stress over dad, and my wife, was stopping the doctor from looking further and seeing the cat!

Hopefully, your mood will stabilise a soon, and you will be able to take fewer drugs, rather than more, and you'll be able to manage without the help of your psychiatrist. It's a different approach to mental health issues, but a psychotherapist will do his or her best to help you deal with the cause of the stress you feel over your assault. It's a 'hot' subject that jumps at me from your writings, and I'd like to urge you to put it in its place, ie. in the past. You don't have to keep on suffering it over and over.

I'm still as interested in castration as ever I was, and now that I'm feeling better in myself, and way more positive (due to sleeping well), I realise that I'm feeling far less scared that lowering my testosterone with Cyproterone will cause me to feel bad like it did the last time, so I'm contemplating having another go at it.

Stay in touch Todd.

All the best

Riven