update:

The HGH is working wonderfully

The T dose im at has sent my levels to double maximum, T1810ng/dl, E2 119,DHT190

I skipped 2 shots and next week i take a 50mg shot and start some sub-lingual drops compounded with testosterone and aramex. Ill post my mid-feb results after this.

Update, doctor had me do my labs early because im not feeling what i should. Im not absorbing the drops but the adex is helping E2 issues. Next compound will just be Adex drops, easier to measure that way. Im now on 75mg/week as my labs today show me at T312, E2 34, DHT 21 after my "down-adjustment" then 50mg shots, which is why im so tired and weak feeling lately..

HGH at 1500IU is bringing me into norms, so it wont be changed anytime soon.

Some information on transdermal intake of estrogen & progesterone would be helpful. This method avoids the liver issue and promotes an even uptake. Patches such as estraderm are available or patches can be made out of commonly available products (water proof bandage, percutaneous absorption enhancer) requiring only the addition of the desired hormone(s). An unmodified male has the advantage of being able to apply a patch to the scrotum where the thin upper layer of skin, natural warmth, and abundance of blood vessels close to the surface provide the ideal conditions for absorption.

Just a note, my doctor is totally opposed to progesterone, She (a transgender woman) says that it's to dangerous for the few plus effects. The only good thing about it is it's blood thining capability. She told me to take two baby asprin and stay away from progesterone.

Pauline.

Plix you know I think the world of you and I DO respect your opinions and based on what I know (little) have to admit you probably have a better take on this then I do. However a couple of points / questions.

The only women taking Armidex are the cancer patients who have no other options. Thus 100% of them are probably going to croak and how much of that is related to Arimidex is difficult to calculate. I know the original studies used healthy women but these were short term and guys like us would be looking at using this drug for life.

In addition Men and women are different enough that I think a drug with no study whatsoever for our gender is more iffy then most.

I agree with you on the long term use of drugs to increase testicle size. All three of the doctors I spoke to said the same thing. If you want to do this to restore "fertility" we would do it for 6 months max. Anything beyond that we are concerned about your safety. So the men who have Doctors who prescribe this for years and years for male ego? Hummm.... As much as I DO buy into the need for some sort of pair (real or not) I have serious doubts about this approach.

I don't know about Dr Crisler. I admit he may be a genius ahead of his time. I will even admit most of what he says sounds logical and straightforward but.... Not much about his use of Arimidex or HCG etc is supported by the usual medical papers and tests. It does make you wonder why there are no studies being done but I really don't know that process.

Don't worry - I'll be the first to admit I know little to nothing about the use of a-dex and HCG in males.

My point was just that we can't always dismiss a drug for treatment of a condition just because long-term safety has not been confirmed. This is why there are "experimental" drugs out there, and many of these drugs have saved people's lives, or at least made them a little more tolerable. If we refuse experimental drugs until long-term safety can be confirmed, which can take decades of studies, then many of these people would suffer.

Now the conditions that a-dex and HCG treat in men are not life threatening, so you do have a point there. No one is going to die because their E is high or their balls are small. They may not feel too great, but they aren't going to have life-threatening complications. So perhaps more study should be devoted to their use in men before it becomes mainstream.

Dr. Crisler is a very knowledgeable doctor in the field of TRT, no doubt about that. But just because he is an "expert" does not mean he sheds his humanity for infallibility. He is not perfect, and he can still be wrong. Something we don't want to forget

gpb3aol (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:40 am Just a note, my doctor is totally opposed to progesterone, She (a transgender woman) says that it's to dangerous for the few plus effects. The only good thing about it is it's blood thining capability. She told me to take two baby asprin and stay away from progesterone.

Pauline.

And I've had a few that swore by it, the problem is we dont know the endocrine system even at a level of 75% completeness, so there i ALLOT of guess work going on..

Progesterone has been used as long as just about any hormone we have been able to produce. Its sides and safety have been VERY established. Ive actually never heard a doctor have such an opinion, but i tend to float in osteopathic circles.

It should be noted again, the levels of HCG and Adex recommended for male chronic use are a very small fraction of the doses for fertility or cancer treatment. This alone reduces side effects and risks significantly. We are using them in 1/10th to 1/20th the dose they do, so side effects are going to be very different. Long term study is worthy, but market forces being what they are, we have to rely on built up individual case study evidence & flat out experience by the doctors.

As far as FDA testing, how many drugs have they deemed "safe" then pulled from the market after they start killing people?

Off label usage is as old as the FDA itself, and has become an established legal run-around with only one exception.

Below are my T levels since I started Chemical castration:

2005 – 321 Range 241 – 827

2006 – 82 Range 241 – 827

2006 – 2.7 Range 7.2 – 24 (free)

2007 – 0.4 Range 1.9 – 11.3

The good Dr. K told me "T" would go down to 30 after surgical. I accept that but still feel chemically castrated, as in no sex interest.

Question is, where does that 2007 level of 0.4 rank in that earlier range of 241 to 827 for normal males, which I am more familiar with.

Thanks,

Smoothie

if you can post he units i can possibly convert it, but without knowing if its a ng/dl or pg/ml or whatever I have no way to tell.