Recently, in my local newspaper I saw an article about a woman who had been arrested for running a website that catered to fantasy stories of child rape and the like. Immediately, I thought of EA and Slammr's board. Are we next?

Slammr (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:20 pm Does the UK have a constitution that protects rights such as Freedom of Speech, or is that determined by whomever is in power at the time? How fortunate for us in the U.S. that our forefathers had wisdom enough to adopt the Bill of Rights.

The UK is a 'constitutional monarchy', as correctly identified by your own CIA world factbook (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fa ... os/uk.html) (a very useful resource BTW!) As we are not a republic, we have no 'formal' or 'written constitution' (as noted by Wikipedia's entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituti ... ed_Kingdom)) Our constitution is probably not what an American will think of their rather limited definition of the word, and cannot be used to defend freedoms as the U.S. one can, but rather - is simply a way of keeping track of the current law? It has no formally layed out guidelines as to how these laws are to be made and changed.

The lack of a central written constitutional document explaining the fundamental principles of the state and relationship between its institutions and between the people leads some constitutionalists to regard the United Kingdom as having 'no (formal) constitution'. The phrase 'unwritten constitution'; is sometimes usedI agree that - for you - the Bill of Rights and Constitution were the mantras that gave you your freedom. And, as someone from a republic, you will have been raised to believe that you cannot argue against your own constitution. This is your own umbilical chord from which you became a seperate entity from Britain. And - from which - all your freedoms are derived. So I absolutely agree with you Slammr! But at the same time, I hope to put it in the broader context of other systems and other possibilities.

But, in the cutting of the umbillical chord from the British Empire, and the very recent birth of the U.S. as a republic, the Founding Fathers would have all the knowledge the immigrants from Holland, France and Britain brought with them over many thousands of years of their history. Having seen various systems try, fail, and carefully noting the various potential pitfalls in leadership style. Our system dates back many thousands of years of bloodshed. So I will argue caution before laying all of this triumph (and it IS a triumph!) solely at the feet of the Founding Fathers. But clearly they did make the right decision, and without doubt (sorry if this has sounded critical so far!), is still a far better system than most European systems, possibly with the exception of France, who went through the revolution, often violent and through force of moving from a monarchy to a republic. Which is probably why we havn't moved in that direction! Even though we all know a republic with a constitution and basic fundamental principles will be more likely to protect freedoms and less open to abuse.

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kristoff wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:39 pm I should think that the British version of the ACLU (whichever that may be), would challenge this in the local courts

I'm not sure we have anything like this. I would be very interested to know if we do. I've read up about the ACLU and know what it's about, but can think of no direct British parallel. I could be wrong. I usually am

Kangan (imported) wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:42 am Recently, in my local newspaper I saw an article about a woman who had been arrested for running a website that catered to fantasy stories of child rape and the like. Immediately, I thought of EA and Slammr's board. Are we next?

It is a problem. One guy was arrested -- and I believe convicted -- for writing his child rape fantasies in his Diary. The case was eventually thrown out on appeal -- supported by the ACLU -- but -- by that time -- the guy was probably ruined both financially and as far as his reputation was concerned. The problem is: they don't have to convict you. All they have to do is charge you.

Other cases: Webmaster Sits in Jail While Facing Obscenity Charges (http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/internet ... 51222.html)

Congress passed the Child Online Protection Act:At issue was the Child Online Protection Act, which imposed draconian criminal sanctions, with penalties of up to $50,000 per day and up to six months imprisonment, for online material acknowledged as valuable for adults but judged "harmful to minors."

Luckily that law was struck down by the Supreme Court. It would have certainly outlawed most of what goes on here on EA, on the message boards as well as the story section.

H.R. 4623 seeks to ban "virtual child pornography," and prohibit "pandering" of images as child pornography even if the images are not obscene or child pornography. It creates a whole new category of prohibited speech, prohibits using sexually explicit materials to facilitate offenses against minors, creates extraterritorial jurisdiction, and creates a database of minors who have been exploited in the creation of child pornography Link (http://www.aclu.org/privacy/speech/1479 ... 20508.html)

If -- as Kangan says -- a woman was arrested for writing child rape fantasies, then we could certainly imagine that people could be arrested for writing child castration fantasies. They would probably even be convicted, even though the case might be overturned on appeal.

No where in my stories do I advocate castrating anyone, especially not children. I write most of my stories from the point of view of the person being castrated, exploring how his castration affects him emotionally, socially, and physically. I use pubescent boys in some of my stories because I think castration would have a much more profound effect on them than on an older person. If I were castrated at my age, it would probably have little effect on my life, and probably no one would know. But -- if I'd been castrated at 14-16, it would have changed my whole life. Can you imagine having to change and shower in P.E., and you're the only boy without balls or without a cock?

Certainly there's sex in most of my stories, but sex is fun, and even 14-16 year olds engage in it. You can buy books on Amazon that have more graphic sex scenes involving 12 year-olds than do any of my stories (Any English School Boy books by Chris Kent, for instance).

There have also been other mainstream books involving child castration: The Persian Boy, by Mary Renault; Cry to Heaven, by Ann Rice

I don't think that conviction is the objective of these prosecutions. It is far more likely that they are meant to intimidate. There have been constitutional questions about these laws even before they were inacted. --FLO--

Uncle Flo (imported) wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:09 am I don't think that conviction is the objective of these prosecutions. It is far more likely that they are meant to intimidate. There have been constitutional questions about these laws even before they were inacted. --FLO--

I agree. They wouldn't have to convict you to ruin you. Just charging you would be sufficient.

Beware the witchhunters. We live in a police state and the walls have ears.

Concerning the UK equivalent of the ACLU, we do have such an organisation.

It is often much maligned, it is open to all the community to use as a body to assist in pursuing defence of injustice. The organisation is called Liberty.

It was formerly known as the National Council For Civil Liberties.

I totally agree with the comments about only 'need to charge you' to do the damage - I work as a nurse - so if I was prosecuted for any sex-related crime, then wether innocent or guilty I could kiss goodbye to my life as is. I would almost certainly be struck off the nursing register for life and would need to look for a new job and (i know this sounds drastic) possibly a new home if the local community found out. It is a very sad fact that most people don't let the truth get in the way of scandal and rumours and it's the latter that are remembered...

to continue with sac-mec's comments, is there any way that this 'liberty' organisation could be involved to prevent this sort of thing happening? Typically of UK governments, this current one also seems to delight in being so deliberately vague when passing new laws that nobody knows for sure what is legal or not! The next thing you know there is case after case reported in the press of people being prosecuted in relation to the new law(s) and wether they have commited any crime becomes largely irrelevant as their lives are irrevocably altered.

Apologies for the rant, but it makes me shamed to be a british citizen in a country that seems to increasingly be going the way of a police state that can / will victimize anyone who has an interest in festishes / sexual behaviour that isn't deemed normal. Welcome to the opening night of '1984 meets v for vendetta'