TerryUK (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:05 am I agree that there should be a minimum age before a man should be able to seek castration.

I thought the point of this thread was a suggested minimum age, rather than a mandatory minimum age.

I have no problem with the former, but the latter infringes on my right to make decisions for myself.

happousai (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:56 am I thought the point of this thread was a suggested minimum age, rather than a mandatory minimum age.

Indeed. This thread started as my desire for feedback on the best possible wording for my list of castration effects, oriented towards those who are thinking of this operation but may not be in poosession of all the facts about what is really going to happen to them. There is still way too much fantasy and wishfull thinking on the subject.

"

Andrew (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:47 am There is still way too much fantasy and wishfull thinking on the subject.

"

And for those of us who have experienced (essentially in my case) the positive effects of low testosterone and/or castration, that is not enough. Being a eunuch is a real life choice for some people--one with significant side-effects and consequences.



"Believe it; dogs have Masters, cats have staff."

Yes, cats do. My staff was not bit enough.

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:14 pm Okay, so back to the original question.

My suggestion for a eunuch standard of care is as follows. Start with the one for TS. However, the minimum age should be set at the age where people are finished their growth (maybe 21?) and are also age of majority. Furthermore, the eunuch should "live as a eunuch" by using medically administered chemical castration for a period equal to that required by a TS person.

I'd say that this would be completely reasonable...

Age of majority, and a good amount of time with it done in

a reversible way. Then you bring 'em back and say, you have

three choices: stop the drug, continue with the drug, or get

rid of the NEED for the drug via surgery.

Some M2F (and F2M) TG children have the option of getting hormonal treatment by Tanner State Two of puberty (basically, before any noticable changes occur), and then castration as early as age 16.

In a perfect world, how would eunuch-wannabe children be handled? In my case (I'm age 21), I could have done without the voice changing and body hair/beard growth. But since I went through puberty "normally", it would be difficult to undo this.

happousai (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:56 am I thought the point of this thread was a suggested minimum age, rather than a mandatory minimum age.

I have no problem with the former, but the latter infringes on my right to make decisions for myself.

I've read this thread with extreme interest. While I was castrated at an older age (56 y.o.) and there were even extenuating physical circumstances - painful testicles from many years of infections of the epididymis, testicles that spent far too much of their time in my inguinal canals and associated low levels of natural testosterone production - that had convinced me that I'd be no worse off as a castrate, I've nevertheless encountered many castrates or eunuchs in their late teens or early 20s that were quite happy being ballless or without external genitalia. One of the reasons that many of us on this board have advocated the need for surgical castration on demand is that there is often a psychological need to follow through with the surgical procedure, and this need may be even stronger in younger candidates than in older ones. Any undesirable consequences are also riskier for younger candidates. It should be sufficient that due dilligence be assured in the case of younger candidates.

Prior to making my own decision to have my balls harvested, I consulted briefly with a therapist who's counselled many non-TS men with a castration fixation. I learned that she's particularly sensitive in her practise to the pitfalls that may especially afflict younger men. She focuses particularly on the loss of reproductive capability that's not necessarily a concern of mine or many other members of this board, but is relevant to the lives of younger seekers. Her services have seemingly been useful in causing many candidates to take that 2nd assessment, and quite a few have reportedly decided to put off the loss of their balls or try harder to live with their fixation. I did the latter for many years, and I'm not sorry I did. However, many others can't live as happily with a castration fixation. I am confident that carefully formulated guidelines within the medical community would be sufficient.

An even larger concern of mine is the decision to forego testosterone supplementation following castration. Fortunately, one can undertake it at anytime, and this goes for Fraj as well. I am surprised that no one has yet brought up this possibility.

Here is an article on the long term effects of castration

http://intl-jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/c ... 84/12/4324

I appoligize if it has been posted before.

Wow, thank you for this reference.

I believe that the current ages for surgical consent are for the most part adequate.

I firmly believe that no surgery on the sexual organs should be allowed without the consent of the person, unless it is an absolute medical necesity ie injury or cancer. Some exception for restorative procedures to correct birth defects.

No exception for religious reasons. This should be a Universal Human Right.

For the Jews and Muslims they could go back to the old way it was done, where the foreskin was separated from the glans and the frenum was cut, or just the drawing of blood from there and wait til the Bar Mitzvah for it to be done. After all they no longer offer animal sacrifices.

I do believe that it should be done slowly, ie a mandatory 1 year on something like Lupron. During that period a psychological counselling should be done to ensure that is what the person needs, or wants. ie No unreasonable expectations, like getting castrated will make their life all right. ie they will be loved, etc.... Castration, etc. are not cure alls.

I know that my castration won't make everything right, it won't solve my problems. It will just be different. Personally I don't like my genitals, and hate the hormone level I presently have.

This assesment period should have no age limit, and be totally private for the person no matter what age. Any problems will start at puberty and kids are starting to enter it earlier and earlier.

The best way to ensure a person really wants them gone is to have them awake and cut the cords themselves.

Remember we have people in our group that are transexuals, slaves, and multiple others who for some reason they feel their life would be better without their equipment, or the equipment they want or desire.

Some people here want no hormones, others want less, and others want different ones.

Andrew (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:52 pm In theory, it is legal to have yourself castrated at age 18 or 21, depending on where you live, and assuming you can find a Physician, Doctor, or Surgeon willing to do the operation. In such cases, tthose Doctors might be more willing to prescribe chemical castration.

So I am wondering if I should do a rewrite, with a suggestion that age 25 is the cut-off date (pun intended), under which a person should try chemical castration before making the final decision for surgery?

If not 25, what age? 30? 40? Castration before age 40 increases your risk of ostreoporosis.

This is really a tricky issue. The needs of those who would benefit from orchiectomy need to be weighed against the needs of those who need to think about this and be careful. Do we just give this surgery on demand and never mind those who will regret it, or do we make it difficult to obtain, which might prevent a few regrets, but cause problems for those who do need to be castrated?

Personally I lean toward allowing consenting adults to be able to obtain the surgery. I had my orchiectomy at age 31, and I am happy with my route, but I also regret that I didn't get to do it when I was younger. Back in 1985 I made an irreversible decision which I now regret. I decided to try and repress my gender issues, and as a result I allowed years of testosterone effects on my body. I was fortunate in many ways, for in spite of waiting until my early 30s, I was still able to effect my physical and social transition and be just another woman in everyday life, but I did lose my hair, developed a beard which cost me $12,000 plus other expenses to remove it, and worst of all lost 14 or so years of happiness which I could have had sooner. I was 17 years old at that time, and no therapist or doctor asked me if I was sure I wanted to deny my gender issues and let testosterone take effect on my body. No friends warned me or asked if I would be happy pretending to be a man.

If standards were made, that might cause a few unsure persons to hesitate before getting the surgery, but there will still be some who will put themselves through whatever protocol we put in their path, get the surgery, and then regret it. In addition, some will find ways to go around such a system by forging therapist letters or pretending to be on anti-androgen medications. One such example of a person who went around the system for transsexuals to get SRS and then regretted it is:

http://transsexual.org/letters20.html#moron

Transitioners like myself would no doubt benefit from castration at a younger age. When a non-transgendered man writes to me, if he is between 18 and 25, I advise him to consider that his body has not finished masculinizing yet, and is he sure he wants to forego the additional masculinization? However, just because someone is not transgendered does not always mean that they would regret being castrated while still a young adult. Some men would wish to let their development finish, while others would rather feel peaceful and calm already.

In my E-Mails, I have suggested to persons of all ages to try chemical castration if they are not sure. It should be noted that those who are transitioning often take estrogen (a form of chemical castration) for some time before orchiectomy, and usually before SRS.

I just posted a new page on my website urging persons who are sure they would be happier for being castrated to obtain the surgery safely and intelligently, and I wish there were more doctors who would safely perform this surgery, especially for the non-transgendered men here. Instead of calling for more standards, I would wish anyone considering castration, regardless of their age, to be absolutely certain that they know themselves.