A right statement I would say no inheritance in sexual orientation. But the topic is more complex as it could be tought at first glance. Studies shows that the second male in a sibling has 40% more chance of being homosexual compare to the first male arriving in a family. Go figure, nothing is simple when you look at human behaviour.

As for animal most of the species would not show any sexual activities outside basic reproduction but it's not true for the higher mamals. Dolphins, whales, and most species of chimps would show masturbation and sexual play with same sex individuals.

What is their feelings, intentions, level of pleasure? It's hard to tell, but animals have a sense of being and we would be surprised if we could be in their "shoes" for a moment.

As a genetician I must say that genetics does not explain everyting. Especially when facing complex psychology as in humans. Inheritancce can give you many predisposition for various conditions, some affecting the behaviour or the mental health like schyzophrenia and profound depression. In the feild of sexual behaviors our mind learns throught our lives and experiences. Your education, experience in live are the prominent factors that would influence your sexual behaviours or kinks. The curriosity of mankind for the sexual plays is attractive by itself there is no need of genetic support here. The genetics supports your development and your metabolism. A lot of what we are is built by apprenticeship and education. Moreover, kinks are no longer consider rare in society (at least occidental) as a study by Joyal and Carpentier shows that BDSM (all activities included) is present in 15.9% of the population. A precision here, they are not all active, to be considered, a participant could only have been interrested in one of the practice even without practicing it.

I hope my comments will help clarifying some missconceptions here.

wanasoso2 (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:05 am A right statement I would say no inheritance in sexual orientation.

Once again, a straight man telling the rest of us that being gay can't possibly be biological.

When did you decide to be straight? Please, oh please regale me with that story.

Why don't you straight folks quit imposing your crap on my fundamental humanity? We don't crap all over yours. Enough already...

Sorry Losethem if I offence you and other member of the community by being to short in my already quite long comments.

I just mention one case of evidence for the presence of gay man in a siblings has a situation linked to the psychological patern in a family but it does not exclude the biological part which has been proven many years from now.

A biological part that found it's rooth en the metabolism of the individual. Although it's linked to the metabolism the genetic behind is at a level of complexity that is beyond the basic mendelian genetic, the one we learn at highschool.

It is more of a genetic pattern linked to DNA methylation and proteomics.

So basically my taking home message here is that yes there is genetic basis behind sexual orientation but not for the kinks. Those are two very different things. And the funny question of this thread is not in fact a good question for a forum because it's a way to much complex to discuss such a topics when you're not a specialist of the field.

Also for the straight guy, please just take note that I may be straight somehow but I'm a guy alway in panties, with nail polish and I somethimes go at the hardware store and the grocery in short pants and coloured pantyhose. The serrounded gay guys I met there are quite straight compare to me.

Again sorry for the offense it was not my intention.

We, humans, like all other higher animals, that are seeking for happiness. Our nervous systems are built this way. To seek. It is inherited. It is the very basic emotion that sets us to move. Probably the oldest one that living beings are able feel. (Jaak Panksepp) Also, a sex drive is built on top that same underlieing emotional system. To motivate us to multiply. The more complex our brain gets, the more details emerge and the more complex is our behaviour. There is only a thin gray layer on top of the brain that gives us intelligence that no other animal has. I tend to think that being gay or stright is not decided in the gray leyer. It stems from somewhere more deep in our brains. You can't make a decision that from now on you get sexually aroused by men, women, dogs, etc. Switch off your T and you won't get aroused at all. It does not depend on your will or on your gray layer in your brain.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaak_Panksepp)

Panksepp carved out seven biologically inherited primary affective systems called SEEKING (expectancy), FEAR (anxiety), RAGE (anger), LUST (sexual excitement), CARE (nurturance), PANIC/GRIEF (sadness), and PLAY (social joy). He proposed what is known as "core-SELF" to be generating these affects.

I think that all men are prone to a variety of "kinks" and it's difficult to say if they're inherited or if they're just part of our humanness. I believe we develop most kinks from our surroundings and environments. Though we all have a proclivity for sex or sexual things, what causes one person to gravitate towards one or a variety of kinks is a mystery. I will say that when I was very young, before puberty, I had thoughts about cutting off my penis and for no particular reason. Some say it's a demonic or satanic motivation, that the devil and demons push us to have these thoughts because they can't have sex or reproduce like humans. Some say that they men are born depraved, and specific kinks are the result of our depraved minds. Still others believe that who we associate with soon after puberty, plays a role in the kinks we develop. It could also be the result of who raises us. Rather that being inherited, it might just be the result of who raises us and their views on sex or sexuality. If you're raised by someone who thinks sex is bad, then you'll probably think that too and maybe that will cause you to have a frustrated sex life. Well, those are some of my thoughts and things I've read or heard.

Hash (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:08 am I will say that when I was very young, before puberty, I had thoughts about cutting off my penis and for no particular reason. Some say it's a demonic or satanic motivation, that the devil and demons push us to have these thoughts because they can't have sex or reproduce like humans. Some say that they men are born depraved, and specific kinks are the result of our depraved minds. Still others believe that who we associate with soon after puberty, plays a role in the kinks we develop. It could also be the result of who raises us. Rather that being inherited, it might just be the result of who raises us and their views on sex or sexuality. If you're raised by someone who thinks sex is bad, then you'll probably think that too and maybe that will cause you to have a frustrated sex life. Well, those are some of my thoughts and things I've read or heard.

I for example was significantly more interested in boys long before puberty. The same with various kinks. I read a book where various paraphilias were described, and it seemed to me like these are something exciting, but before puberty that general switch that forces us to take action, was in off position. As many "scientists" point out that paraphilias are a result of sexual and physical abuse during childhood, I was raised in a perfectly normal family with two loving parents, with all my essential needs fulfilled. Noone ever abused me, or hated me. My friends were all from good families, none of them were from broken family. Quite perfect background. Still I am strongly homosexual and think that I need to be circumcised and castrated. I was thinking about it already before puberty. As soon as I learned that boys can be circumcised, it seemed that I had wanted it since my birth, only I wasn't able to describe what I needed exactly. Puberty was mere ON switch, that amplified already existing kinks 20 fold and developed other less interesting kinks

By the way, you should also take into account the factor of education.

Many schools practiced separate education for boys and girls:

there were classes for boys and classes for girls.

Well, people always strive to communicate first of all with their peers around them ...

My school had mixed classes. So I had equal chances to socialize with girls and boys. But as usual boys have more mutual interests with other boys than girls. My puberty started exactly at age 13.5y. That is when I noticed quick surge of testosterone. Very hard morning woods, desire to masturbate every single day that was very hard to resist. So I know very precisely when it started. I can even tell a week. It was abrupt change.

But before puberty I can not say that I was completely sexless or did not have any interest in sexual stuff. I had. I started to masturbate regularily at age 8. And I did have sexual fantasies already back then. Though it is hard to tell, which was first. Was it desire to be sexually aroused, that inevitably lead to orgasm, or sexual fantasies that induced sexual arousal. Somehow I tend to think that desire to be sexually aroused was first and only then fantasies developed around it. But my sexual fantasies back then were completely unrelated to my upbringing or environment. I have no idea why I had such weird fantasies.

Also the interest in other boys emerged when I was 11. Before puberty. It like creeped in slowly. I did not pay much attention at first. I remember that up until that age I did not notice big differences between boys and girls. Girls were the same human beings. They had different interests, but I did not pay attention on having different organs. I guess that as my brain developed, "things" were hardwired inside it, that led me to be more interested in boys. Around 14 I started to realize how different I was. I could not imagine myself being married with a girl and act as heterosexual man. Already by then I had many unusual kinks, that made me think that I lack normalcy completely. I started to hate myself. Why should I be such a weirdo? What future will I have? Nothing normal. Crying and hitting my head against the wall wouldn't help. I thought I am the only freak in the world. It made me want to disappear. I knew that there are people who really love me, so my disappeareance would hurt them less I was thinking. So I developed a good plan what 15yo can develope. I told my parents that I will go to our cottage alone, but instead I went to a big forest. To a place I thought noone would find me. To cure myself with a rope. Thats how I named it. Before that I had tried different nooses and their position on my neck at home many many times, so it would be as painless as possible. See, I still cared about myself. That was I life changing experience. I failed, because I probably still loved myself. I left a chance for my self by not firmly tieing other end of the rope. Now I knew how dieing feels like. I had the tunnel vision, loosing all the pain, the last thing I could remember was that I was falling down. It was dark and warm around me, I could hear wind noise getting distant and fading and light above my head disappearing. I don't know for how long I did not exist. But first that returned, was my mind. I felt my existance again. My mind was empty, I did not know who am I, but the feeling of existance was pleasurable. After a while my hearing was switched on. It was like someone quickly turned volume to maximum. I could hear wind again. And then all pain and cold returned. I discovered myself in impossible and painful position. Like a pile of bones. My joints and limbs hurt and I was cold. At home I discovered a blue rope mark on my neck which was difficult hide. But somehow I managed to hide it from my parents.

What I want to say is, that my gayness and kinks are probably not caused by the environment I was growing up. But suicide attempt certainly was. As the environment I was growing up, was pretty homophobic. Plus there was very little information available about paraphilias (kinks) and how to deal with them.

I would think yes. As a child I accidentally walked into my parents bedroom while they were playing "kinky BDSM" stuff. My father on the receiving end. I know my brother and I are both into that realm as well with our girlfriends. Only think I can think of is an inherent gene.

I can't speak to this. Never walked in on anyone, never saw anything as a child. Guess I had boring upbringing. The most I ever did see was livestock going at it, but then again, that was natural.