• No Dice on The Estrogen

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:51 am**

I'm faced with the same problem. After going a year with very low T and taking estradiol and progesterone, I'm happier than ever and my wife and I have never been happier than ever. But I don't want to keep hiding the fact that I've been taking female hormones so I told my internist the whole story about CaCl2 injections and taking hormones. I told her I didn't want to keep self-medicating. She did eventually refer me to an endocrinologist (female) who took a lot of time listening to my history and I hope she'll eventually get me to where I need to be. But first, I have to go without any hormones, then try low-dose T. I can't imagine that will work, but this is the route I have to take and hope she'll believe me if I report being miserable on even a lot dose of T. If not, then I'll have to decide whether to keep looking for a sympathetic physician or go back on the female hormones.

I'm also thinking about whether there are any other means of influencing the medical community to take us seriously. We're really being pioneers in this regard and pushing this particular boundary may end up benefiting millions of men like us who don't understand whey they are so miserable.

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:27 am**

notsomanly (imported) wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:51 am I'm faced with the same problem. After going a year with very low T and taking estradiol and progesterone, I'm happier than ever and my wife and I have never been happier than ever. But I don't want to keep hiding the fact that I've been taking female hormones so I told my internist the whole story about CaCl2 injections and taking hormones. I told her I didn't want to keep self-medicating. She did eventually refer me to an endocrinologist (female) who took a lot of time listening to my history and I hope she'll eventually get me to where I need to be. But first, I have to go without any hormones, then try low-dose T. I can't imagine that will work, but this is the route I have to take and hope she'll believe me if I report being miserable on even a lot dose of T. If not, then I'll have to decide whether to keep looking for a sympathetic physician or go back on the female hormones.

I'm also thinking about whether there are any other means of influencing the medical community to take us seriously. We're really being pioneers in this regard and pushing this particular boundary may end up benefiting millions of men like us who don't understand whey they are so miserable.

Influencing the USA or UK medical community will be a task akin to flying to the moon in a home-made rocket. No other profession seems to be as intransigent and stubborn and all changes so far have come very slowly. I hate it, for I'm not a big fan of self medicating but just like doctors drive Eunuch wannabes to self mutilate or to underground "cutters", they drive cross hormone seekers to offshore pharmacies. To me this is absurd and counterproductive. I also note the hypocrisy of a profession whose manta is "do no harm".

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:27 am**

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:27 am Influencing the USA or UK medical community will be a task akin to flying to the moon in a home-made rocket. No other profession seems to be as intransigent and stubborn and all changes so far have come very slowly. I hate it, for I'm not a big fan of self medicating but just like doctors drive Eunuch wannabes to self mutilate or to underground "cutters", they drive cross hormone seekers to offshore pharmacies. To me this is absurd and counterproductive. I also note the hypocrisy of a profession whose manta is "do no harm".

I totally agree. So many of us have had so many problems over all these years.

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:16 pm**

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:27 am Influencing the USA or UK medical community will be a task akin to flying to the moon in a home-made rocket. No other profession seems to be as intransigent and stubborn and all changes so far have come very slowly. I hate it, for I'm not a big fan of self medicating but just like doctors drive Eunuch wannabes to self mutilate or to underground "cutters", they drive cross hormone seekers to offshore pharmacies. To me this is absurd and counterproductive. I also note the hypocrisy of a profession whose manta is "do no harm".

I guess I take hope from the fact that transgender, in fact the whole spectrum of LGTBQ is now considered legitimate by the medical community. But it did take a long time. And there seem to be relatively few of us who just want to be rid of that infernal hormone and nothing else.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:43 am**

notsomanly (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:16 pm I guess I take hope from the fact that transgender, in fact the whole spectrum of LGTBQ is now considered legitimate by the medical community. But it did take a long time. And there seem to be relatively few of us who just want to be rid of that infernal hormone and nothing else.

I have been casually looking online for a doctor in my area that deals with transgenders to supervise should I wish to continue estrogen in June. I think I have been "fishing in the wrong pond" when it comes to finding a hormone doctor, as they must be out there serving the trans community. So maybe it's not as difficult as I first imagined and I simply need to find the right pond in which to fish.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:45 pm**

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:43 am I have been casually looking online for a doctor in my area that deals with transgenders to supervise should I wish to continue estrogen in June. I think I have been "fishing in the wrong pond" when it comes to finding a hormone doctor, as they must be out there serving the trans community. So maybe it's not as difficult as I first imagined and I simply need to find the right pond in which to fish.

I certainly found it much easier to find service providers and explain myself to them when I understood and accepted that I was nonbinary, and thus a type of transgender. We have many needs in common with the MtF community, some of whom are here.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:46 pm**

catoboros (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:45 pm I certainly found it much easier to find service providers and explain myself to them when I understood and accepted that I was nonbinary, and thus a type of transgender. We have many needs in common with the MtF community, some of whom are here.

It would be great if I could say that I'm nonbinary, but I'm not. The biggest hurdle may be to get the medical community to understand that some cis males just don't like the effects of testosterone that most men (and doctors) see as essential to maleness.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:00 pm**

I've been off testosterone for 6 weeks and feel great but know that I need some hormones but I have severe reaction to synthetic testosterone. It causes sever mental problems with my bipolar disorder and skitzoaffectine disorder, it causes my medications to stop working. Off testosterone I'm doing great even my counselor has noticed a big change in me. I see my psychiatrist the beginning of the month and will be talking to him about it. I don't know if he can help me? I know women who have mental disorders can be affected by hormones. I will have to see.

I will be talking about estrogen therapy and how it's used in prostate cancer patients, so I can show him that it's used in men in low doses.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:18 pm**

notsomanly (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:46 pm It would be great if I could say that I'm nonbinary, but I'm not. The biggest hurdle may be to get the medical community to understand that some cis males just don't like the effects of testosterone that most men (and doctors) see as essential to maleness.

Dare I say that in their mind, that is non-binary! I had to go that route also to get what I wanted.

Posted: **Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:12 pm**

notsomanly (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:46 pm It would be great if I could say that I'm nonbinary, but I'm not. The biggest hurdle may be to get the medical community to understand that some cis males just don't like the effects of testosterone that most men (and doctors) see as essential to maleness.

Here is an interesting idea: can a cis man suffer from gender dysphoria?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

I have always thought that gender dysphoria is the strongest sign of a trans gender identity (binary and nonbinary), but if someone identifies as a cis man and their conception of their cis man gender identity is different to that commonly held by other cis men and their gender identity assigned at birth, then surely that meets the criteria of a mismatch? Gender dysphoria is (DSM-5) is important as a descriptive tool because it is often used for service gatekeeping.

A related issue are trans people who feel a strong desire to transition, including those who do transition, without reporting any gender dysphoria. I think this is another example where providers can put different labels on things without requiring people to adopt particular labels for themselves.

So, in a nutshell, you may gender dysphoria even though you identify as a cis man.

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