This will probably be a lengthy and venting post, but it needs to be said. I'm a writer who has written a lot, who lost stories in the move and have yet to been recovered, and one with more stories on my hard drive I have yet to post.

First, any excuse that authors don't post their stories because of lack of reviews is unfounded. I highly doubt that many authors write JUST for an audience in this community, authors write out their own fantasies and stories in their mind. Some do have a community of followers, but to this date I am sure many of them write their own fantasies or desires, or just something that pops in their mind. Getting reviews is nice, but in the end, my story was for me. I just posted it for others because it only took me an extra five minutes.

The issue is the process through which to get the casual writer and reader antiquated with the board.

The old system was great, very easy to navigate. I actually go to the Wayback Archives to access the stories now- that system worked. The new system, while having nifty features, is flawed. This is not to say either is better or worse.

What needs to happen right now is an immediate return to the system- with all stories unedited, returned. Place the link to this version in the new code- all that needs to be done is just copying all the HTML files. This would be the "compatibility version". The old system worked, but the new system is a work in progress.

All that needs to be done is the folder containing all the back up HTML/PHP/Codes to be placed on the server and the navigation link posted.

Why do this? A few things:

1) The old system was easier and many stories were lost. Many people stopped reading and caring, myself included, after the move and fiasco from a few years ago. It did probably save me because it stopped my unhealthy addiction to looking at stories nonstop. But still, it was a giant black hole that has very little light coming out of it today.

2) The reasons for the new system are good, but while the bugs are being worked out, it should be "Eunuch Archive bEtA" (Note my EA in the caps!).

3) Preserving access to the old navigation and returning the unedited stories can be done to increase readership and slowly move stories away. I'm sure if you can get more readers reading stories, more people will return to viewing and reading.

4) If more stories are there to be read, more people will want to add new stories to the archive.

5) With all the old stories, readers and authors will be more motivated to get their stories edited to meet the needs of the old archive. Right now, there is no real access to the old stories for the casual reader or author to just look at a story and fix it on their own- all the old stories are held in some secretive vault in Newfoundland. If anyone wants to fix it, so it isn't just one person, it's a whole saga just to do it.

6) Log in, fine, no issue. Make the back up version only accessible through a link past the password.

I fully understand the reasons for going through the old stories. I agree with the prohibitions about minors and death, with a major exception:

Many of my stories are tagged as minor- university in the USA refers to people over 18 (with the rare 17 year old). University in a story does NOT imply underage.

Keep working on editing the stories, but when someone requests a new story to be fixed, and stories still aren't being fixed and added, it makes the reader not even care to visit the site.

I'm sure there are ways you can make coding easier on the new site, but until we can see all the old stories and get our "spirits" and "morale" back, it's going to be the Dark Ages of the EA- even worse than before the site even existed. We know something is out there- but impossible to access.

A few comments from readers struck me as very appropriate:

wannabe (imported) wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:39 am the reason why the archive is struggling a little is this (in my opinion)

1) like anything, if it gets messed up, and isnt repaired quick enough, interest is lost and despondency sets in, not saying the effort put in isnt appreciated by far it is, just saying its human nature to become despondent after 12 months of none finished repair... its life

2) i dont think login is an issue, if something as simple as logging in saves it, thats fine, but, alot of stories are still missing AND all over the place in wrong sections, and the New Stories... stories should only be in there for a week maximum, otheriwse it just looks shit.

As I noted, the despondency of the casual reader has been lost, when you're stuck with a core group of readers, fine, but never at the sacrifice of the fringes of our inclusive society.

DeaconBlues (imported) wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:55 pm What fhunter said, well "my sentiments exactly" or "I couldn't have said it better myself."

But then... my reading paradise was lost, for some (I suppose very good) reason, the archive had to be put is some sort of lock up, hard to get to, hard to remember passwords, just not like it once was.

I know how everyone gets so angry because of any criticism here, so I generally just keep my mouth shut about it, but I miss the old simple archive, that was easy for me to get to.

Simply put, true, and honest. My experience wholeheartedly. Even worse was the loss of Google Cache- that was more up to date.

Elizabeth (imported) wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:04 pm Well, I agree with whoever said it's a huge hassle now. There is not even a link to the archive once one is in the forum. If I want to go to the archive, I have to open a new window, go to my original bookmark again, select the archive, then enter my name and password again. Surfing the archive used to be easy. Now it's not. It's really that simple. I would start with at least a link to the archive from inside the forum.

Elizabeth

My suggestions Elizabeth about navigation issues were never addressed, makes it hard to go back and forth without having to delete text out of the URL in the address bar.

fhunter wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:28 pm In no ways I want to complain, but, I almost stopped reading the archive.

In the good old days it "just worked".

(Jearns cut for space)

fhunter wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:28 pm I do not want to belittle the great work of those, who made a new story archive. And I do understand the need to protect the site.

You speak for thousands of viewers. Thanks.

In the end, a lot of us really do care. We care to read and visit on our own time. But like many, we're lazy. Not to say it's a bad thing, but we want things working easily, we don't always like radical change (Better or worse), We just want a simple way to read stories. If there is an easy way to add a comment or a script, add it over time. Right now, we just want simplicity back, while we can still improve the new archive.

Lack of reviews isn't an issue: although reviews randomly disappear after a period of time, why bother writing them? I wrote reviews of stories between 2005-2010, but where are they? poof! gone! and they were gone before the move.

It's lack of casual fringes of our group having easy access and easy viewing. Keep working on the bEtA site, it'll get better and when all stories are migrated, it'll be nice. But until everything is worked out, retain the ability to access the now-defunct stories. Without seeing all that there is to offer, we lose readership- and that has destroyed this archive more than anything else.

You know, now I am 100% certain of why I no longer want anything to do with the Fiction Archive here.

Thanks for confirming all that, Jearns, and I'm so sorry that all the work that's gone into keeping this place running hasn't been up to your high standards.

A refund check for your EA use fees will go in the mail Monday. So will a ticket to Wisconsin, so that you can personally spit in Talula's face in thanks for all his hard work.

Paolo wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:25 pm You know, now I am 100% certain of why I no longer want anything to do with the Fiction Archive here.

Thanks for confirming all that, Jearns, and I'm so sorry that all the work that's gone into keeping this place running hasn't been up to your high standards.

A refund check for your EA use fees will go in the mail Monday. So will a ticket to Wisconsin, so that you can personally spit in Talula's face in thanks for all his hard work.

Ok, I am doing the wrong thing, and arguing with a moderator.

May be it is my limited english, but I haven't seen anything, that could have caused your reply to his message. Jearns raises VALID points, it is not like whining: "oh, when it will be fixed".

Two words: I'm done.

I'm getting away from this before I go in and nuke the whole goddamn database.

I take the point of this thread to be to encourage participation in and reviews of the fiction archive. If I'm right on that, then it seems reasonable to discuss things that might be gumming up the works and lowering interest. I think we probably all know about the very difficult mess that happened with the fiction archive and how hard and time consuming it was to get things back up and running. I would be very surprised if anyone isn't very thankful for the hard work, time and effort put into getting things back to where they are today. That doesn't mean it's perfect, and discussing the imperfections shouldn't be offered or taken as a personal slight or denigration of the praiseworthy efforts that have gone into getting the place working again. I suspect a less demanding tone on the part of those suggesting changes might help, but so would a bit less sensitivity on the part of those doing the hard work. I realize both of these things are difficult, because many of us are deeply invested in this place. It is personal, because the issues involved are personal.

As an author of a number of stories I have written for my own personal enjoyment and as the consumer of many stories already submitted, I can only give my reasons for not submitting stories and reviews/feedback to the archive. The prospective lack of feedback per se isn't really among the reasons why I haven't submitted my stories. I can certainly see how positive feedback might encourage people to submit more, on the other hand, negative feedback might have the opposite result. Feedback isn't always a pleasant experience.

And that brings be to my first reason -- I don't want to see negative feedback about me. Who does? I'm pretty shy and reluctant to put myself out there on sexual topics, and I'm also pretty self-conscious about my writing abilities. While I don't think I'm a poor writer, I'm not the best speller or editor and I'm actually a little scared of my stories getting rejected or being one of those that only gets a small number of views or a low star rating. These fears may or may not be warranted, but they are real. I love the idea of other people enjoying (sexually or otherwise) ideas I have and worlds I've created, but I also know I'd be the kind of author who would take it personally if they didn't.

Thus the second reason -- I don't want to post negative feedback about others. I rarely read a story here that couldn't use some work (I say this as someone who knows his own writing needs work). That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the stories, and occasionally I have sent a PM reflecting that. But my responses to stories tend to be a mixed bag, and I'm scared and reluctant to post a mixed review. "Wow, this was a great idea and the story got me off, but the dialog was leaden and the characters were one-dimensional. I would really have liked to have heard more about x, y & z." would be a very fair representation of how I feel about a lot of material (not all -- some is really of professional quality). Of course, that's the kind of review I would really not enjoy getting myself, so I don't post it. Sometimes I'm even hesitant to click on the stars if it's not 4 or 5 stars. Leaving out the bad to meh and only posting the good seems somewhat counterproductive and dishonest to me, no to mention it's awkward to write a review that just talks about my level of sexual stimulation.

So there you go, I'm a crazy hyper-critical asshole who can't take criticism. lol. It's a catch-22 I don't know how to solve. Maybe I should just post what I feel honestly and hope people don't take it the wrong way, but I've got to say the thread to date hasn't exactly lessened my reluctance to post either stories or reviews. All of that aside, the fiction archive is extremely important to me on several levels and I really want to be a part of making it work better. I'd love to hear what kinds of feedback would actually be welcomed by the authors.

Please, if anyone has criticisms, I want to know about it.

I am the one in charge of submitting and (if necessary) editing new story submissions. Send complaints to cainanite@live.com

I am the one ultimately responsible. I do not want to lose ANY authors for ANY reason. If your concern is valid, I will certainly take it to heart.

Firstly, to address a concern. You CAN submit Anonymous stories through me. You need only inform me in your email you want to be published as Anonymous, and I will make sure this happens. If you do not want your email attached to the story, I won't publish it. You don't have to put yourself at risk.

If you are concerned that someone might track your story back to you, then don't worry. I am the one who posts the stories, and if there is anything to track back, it will be me it tracks back to.

If you are an author and you have concerns about any step of our publishing process, then LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT!

If I can, I will fix it.

Thanks again to our many authors. You are brave and creative people. I want you to stick around for a long time. I want you to be happy here.

Again, send concerns and complaints to cainanite@live.com

Paolo wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:49 pm You know, I was working on a long reply to this one, but I think I'll just skip it.

It just isn't worth it.

Be glad it's not my call on the fate of the fiction archive, what with all the work that went into getting it back to what it is currently, and the fact that it still seems to be nothing but bitch bitch bitch about it.

Also be glad that you've got Cainanite as t

Paolo wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:04 am he new story "pro". Very glad.

The rules: http://www.eunuch.org/forums/showthread ... t-Anything!

Which has been a sticky thread for years...and may or may not be revised by Cainanite, since it's HIS show now.

And just so you know, I never used a buzzsaw or went "looking" for stories to delete

Paolo wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:25 pm /refuse.

There was plenty of

garbage submitted over the years for that.

You know, now I am 100% certain of why I no longer want anything to do with the Fiction Archive here.

Thanks for confirming all that, Jearns, and I'm so sorry that all the work that's gone into keeping this place running hasn't been up to your high standards.

A refund check for your EA use fees will go in the mail Monday. So will a ticket to Wisconsi

n, so that you can personally spit in Talula's face in thanks for all his hard work.

Wow! I am hearing a lot of anger in these posts. Is is possible that one could misinterpret what sounded like a call for members to speak up about what is going on with the archive, as unappreciative members complaining? Just because someone suggests what they believe might be contributing to lower readership, does not mean they are unappreciative of the work that has already been done. I just don't see what you are so angry about. You sound like you have a lot of pent up anger because archive members failed to meet your expectations?

I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy coming here, but as with most sites I visit, I don't sit around thinking about all the work that went into the site I am. I don't feel sorry for the coder who did not get enough sleep, when a sites navigation is difficult to use. I don't feel like I owe the site anything. I was never told I would be scolded by an administrator for not being thankful enough for his/her sacrifices to the site.

In the end, if you don't like doing what you do here, and feel under-appreciated, you can't blame the members for not being the way you want them to be.

Elizabeth

I gotta admit.. I wrote a story a couple of years ago, worked hard to have some kind of build-up, and I enjoyed the challenge, cause that wasn't easy since it was more like a restaurant menu than a story. Hehe! I posted it, but something happened and it didn't load to next page, so I backed up one page and tried posting it again, waited some days in excitement, but nothing happened. And darn me, just being a fan and no expert I noticed how double posted stories were seen as spam, understandably, so that's why it never got posted I guess. But in the end, I'm kinda glad nothing happened, because my "story" wasn't that good anyway. I WILL try to write again someday, that's my big wet dream.

Hey all

I've said it before and I'll say it again. THANKS to everyone who has volunteered their time and effort into restoring and maintaining the Archive.

The Archive is obviously going to mean different things to different people and you can never please everyone all of the time. So to all of the unhappy people out there please just remember this is a volunteer run entitiy. No one is paid for their labour.

As an author I have found it very therapeutic writing stories and I really do appreciate the star ratings. Personally I would be devastated to lose the stories.

Cheers

M

Mandler1 (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:35 pm Hey all

I've said it before and I'll say it again. THANKS to everyone who has volunteered their time and effort into restoring and maintaining the Archive.

The Archive is obviously going to mean different things to different people and you can never please everyone all of the time. So to all of the unhappy people out there please just remember this is a volunteer run entitiy. No one is paid for their labour.

As an author I have found it very therapeutic writing stories and I really do appreciate the star ratings. Personally I would be devastated to lose the stories.

Cheers

M

I agree, people should be optimistic with what they get and whats's already there. The best to hope for is improve where there needs improvement. No point is crying spilled beans over the old archive. Whats done is done. Let the past remain in the past.

I'm waiting patiently for a better search function, more stories(missing and imncomplete chapters) , and a prototype youtube comment like function. (this would be real sweet if some programmer is up for the challenge)

Would you believe the iOS and android versions of the game minecraft are only being coded by a single person atm? Development sure has been extremely slow(1 update per month)