Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
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Eunuchus (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
I would still be leery of China. If Israel feels threatened enough by Iran they will react swiftly and with deadly force.The USA can only watch if this happens.
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JesusA (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
Sorry for the length of this one, but I think its important to realize how a friend might get the U.S. into a major war. Iran is a well-educated and well-armed country larger in area than Iraq and Afghanistan combined, with a population of about 75 million. (Iraq and Afghanistan are each about 30 million.) With friends like this
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False Flag (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... false_flag)
A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran.
BY MARK PERRY
Foreign Policy
JANUARY 13, 2012
Buried deep in the archives of America's intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush's administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives -- what is commonly referred to as a "false flag" operation.
The memos, as described by the sources, one of whom has read them and another who is intimately familiar with the case, investigated and debunked reports from 2007 and 2008 accusing the CIA, at the direction of the White House, of covertly supporting Jundallah -- a Pakistan-based Sunni extremist organization. Jundallah, according to the U.S. government (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/11/150332.htm) and published reports (http://www.rferl.org/content/Jundallah_ ... 56699.html), is responsible for assassinating Iranian government officials and killing Iranian women and children.
But while the memos show that the United States had barred even the most incidental contact with Jundallah, according to both intelligence officers, the same was not true for Israel's Mossad. The memos also detail CIA field reports saying that Israel's recruiting activities occurred under the nose of U.S. intelligence officers, most notably in London, the capital of one of Israel's ostensible allies, where Mossad officers posing as CIA operatives met with Jundallah officials.
The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad's efforts.
"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought."
Interviews with six currently serving or recently retired intelligence officers over the last 18 months have helped to fill in the blanks of the Israeli false-flag operation. In addition to the two currently serving U.S. intelligence officers, the existence of the Israeli false-flag operation was confirmed to me by four retired intelligence officers who have served in the CIA or have monitored Israeli intelligence operations from senior positions inside the U.S. government.
The CIA and the White House were both asked for comment on this story. By the time this story went to press, they had not responded. The Israeli intelligence services -- the Mossad -- were also contacted, in writing and by telephone, but failed to respond. As a policy, Israel does not confirm or deny its involvement in intelligence operations.
There is no denying that there is a covert, bloody, and ongoing campaign aimed at stopping Iran's nuclear program, though no evidence has emerged connecting recent acts of sabotage and killings inside Iran to Jundallah. Many reports have cited Israel as the architect of this covert campaign, which claimed its latest victim on Jan. 11 when a motorcyclist in Tehran slipped (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/iranian-n ... w224oFKOuI) a magnetic explosive device under the car of Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a young Iranian nuclear scientist. The explosion killed Roshan, making him the fourth scientist assassinated in the past two years. The United States adamantly denies it is behind these killings.
According to one retired CIA officer, information about the false-flag operation was reported up the U.S. intelligence chain of command. It reached CIA Director of Operations Stephen Kappes, his deputy Michael Sulick, and the head of the Counterintelligence Center. All three of these officials are now retired. The Counterintelligence Center, according to its website (https://www.cia.gov/offices-of-cia/inte ... ic-ag.html), is tasked with investigating "threats posed by foreign intelligence services."
The report then made its way to the White House, according to the currently serving U.S. intelligence officer. The officer said that Bush "went absolutely ballistic" when briefed on its contents.
"The report sparked White House concerns that Israel's program was putting Americans at risk," the intelligence officer told me. "There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians."
Israel's relationship with Jundallah continued to roil the Bush administration until the day it left office, this same intelligence officer noted. Israel's activities jeopardized the administration's fragile relationship with Pakistan, which was coming under intense pressure from Iran to crack down on Jundallah. It also undermined U.S. claims that it would never fight terror with terror, and invited attacks in kind on U.S. personnel.
"It's easy to understand why Bush was so angry," a former intelligence officer said. "After all, it's hard to engage with a foreign government if they're convinced you're killing their people. Once you start doing that, they feel they can do the same."
A senior administration official vowed to "take the gloves off" with Israel, according to a U.S. intelligence officer. But the United States did nothing -- a result that the officer attributed to "political and bureaucratic inertia."
"In the end," the officer noted, "it was just easier to do nothing than to, you know, rock the boat." Even so, at least for a short time, this same officer noted, the Mossad operation sparked a divisive debate among Bush's national security team, pitting those who wondered "just whose side these guys are on" against those who argued that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
The debate over Jundallah was resolved only after Bush left office when, within his first weeks as president, Barack Obama drastically scaled back joint U.S.-Israel intelligence programs targeting Iran, according to multiple serving and retired officers.
The decision was controversial inside the CIA, where officials were forced to shut down "some key intelligence-gathering operations," a recently retired CIA officer confirmed. This action was followed in November 2010 by the State Department's addition (http://www.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... group.html) of Jundallah to its list of foreign terrorist organizations -- a decision that one former CIA officer called "an absolute no-brainer."
Since Obama's initial order, U.S. intelligence services have received clearance to cooperate with Israel on a number of classified intelligence-gathering operations focused on Iran's nuclear program, according to a currently serving officer. These operations are highly technical in nature and do not involve covert actions targeting Iran's infrastructure or political or military leadership.
"We don't do bang and boom," a recently retired intelligence officer said. "And we don't do political assassinations."
Israel regularly proposes conducting covert operations targeting Iranians, but is just as regularly shut down, according to retired and current intelligence officers. "They come into the room and spread out their plans, and we just shake our heads," one highly placed intelligence source said, "and we say to them -- 'Don't even go there. The answer is no.'"
Unlike the Mujahedin-e Khalq, the controversial exiled Iranian terrorist group that seeks the overthrow of the Tehran regime and is supported by former leading U.S. policymakers, Jundallah is relatively unknown -- but just as violent. In May 2009, a Jundallah suicide bomber blew himself up inside a mosque in Zahedan, the capital of Iran's southeastern Sistan-Baluchistan province bordering Pakistan, during a Shiite religious festival. The bombing killed 25 Iranians and wounded scores of others.
The attack enraged Tehran, which traced the perpetrators to a cell operating in Pakistan. The Iranian government notified (http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8807281564) the Pakistanis of the Jundallah threat and urged them to break up the movement's bases along the Iranian-Pakistani border. The Pakistanis reacted sluggishly in the border areas, feeding Tehran's suspicions that Jundallah was protected by Pakistan's intelligence services.
The 2009 attack was just one in a long line of terrorist attacks attributed to the organization. In August 2007, Jundallah kidnapped (http://www.jamestown.org/programs/gta/s ... no_cache=1) 21 Iranian truck drivers. In December 2008, it captured and executed (http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2011/au ... -jundallah) 16 Iranian border guards -- the gruesome killings were filmed, in a stark echo of the decapitation of American businessman Nick Berg in Iraq at the hands of al Qaeda's Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. In July 2010, Jundallah conducted (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/world ... ehran.html) a twin suicide bombing in Zahedan outside a mosque, killing dozens of people, including members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.
The State Department aggressively denies that the U.S. government had or has any ties to Jundallah. "We have repeatedly stated, and reiterate again that the United States has not provided support to Jundallah," a spokesman wrote (http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-current ... errorists/) in an email to the Wall Street Journal, following Jundallah's designation as a terrorist organization. "The United States does not sponsor any form of terrorism. We will continue to work with the international community to curtail support for terrorist organizations and prevent violence against innocent civilians. We have also encouraged other governments to take comparable actions against Jundallah."
A spate of stories in 2007 and 2008, including a report (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... ws_exclus/) by ABC News and a New Yorker article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008 ... fact_hersh), suggested that the United States was offering covert support to Jundallah. The issue has now returned to the spotlight with the string of assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists and has outraged serving and retired intelligence officers who fear that Israeli operations are endangering American lives.
"This certainly isn't the first time this has happened, though it's the worst case I've heard of," former Centcom chief and retired Gen. Joe Hoar said of the Israeli operation upon being informed of it. "But while false-flag operations are hardly new, they're extremely dangerous. You're basically using your friendship with an ally for your own purposes. Israel is playing with fire. It gets us involved in their covert war, whether we want to be involved or not."
The Israeli operation left a number of recently retired CIA officers sputtering in frustration. "It's going to be pretty hard for the U.S. to distance itself from an Israeli attack on Iran with this kind of thing going on," one of them told me.
Jundallah head Abdolmalek Rigi was captured (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/world ... rgent.html) by Iran in February 2010. Although initial reports claimed that he was captured by the Iranians after taking a flight from Dubai to Kyrgyzstan, a retired intelligence officer with knowledge of the incident told me that Rigi was detained by Pakistani intelligence officers in Pakistan. The officer said that Rigi was turned over to the Iranians after the Pakistani government informed the United States that it planned to do so. The United States, this officer said, did not raise objections to the Pakistani decision.
Iran, meanwhile, has consistently claimed that Rigi was snatched from under the eyes of the CIA, which it alleges supported him. "It doesn't matter," the former intelligence officer said of Iran's charges. "It doesn't matter what they say. They know the truth."
Rigi was interrogated, tried, and convicted by the Iranians and hanged on June 20, 2010. Prior to his execution, Rigi claimed (http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/126963.html) in an interview with Iranian media -- which has to be assumed was under duress -- that he had doubts about U.S. sponsorship of Jundallah. He recounted an alleged meeting with "NATO officials" in Morocco in 2007 that raised his suspicions. "When we thought about it we came to the conclusion that they are either Americans acting under NATO cover or Israelis," he said.
While many of the details of Israel's involvement with Jundallah are now known, many others still remain a mystery -- and are likely to remain so. The CIA memos of the incident have been "blue bordered," meaning that they were circulated to senior levels of the broader U.S. intelligence community as well as senior State Department officials.
What has become crystal clear, however, is the level of anger among senior intelligence officials about Israel's actions. "This was stupid and dangerous," the intelligence official who first told me about the operation said. "Israel is supposed to be working with us, not against us. If they want to shed blood, it would help a lot if it was their blood and not ours. You know, they're supposed to be a strategic asset. Well, guess what? There are a lot of people now, important people, who just don't think that's true."
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... ?page=full
False Flag (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... false_flag)
A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran.
BY MARK PERRY
Foreign Policy
JANUARY 13, 2012
Buried deep in the archives of America's intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush's administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives -- what is commonly referred to as a "false flag" operation.
The memos, as described by the sources, one of whom has read them and another who is intimately familiar with the case, investigated and debunked reports from 2007 and 2008 accusing the CIA, at the direction of the White House, of covertly supporting Jundallah -- a Pakistan-based Sunni extremist organization. Jundallah, according to the U.S. government (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/11/150332.htm) and published reports (http://www.rferl.org/content/Jundallah_ ... 56699.html), is responsible for assassinating Iranian government officials and killing Iranian women and children.
But while the memos show that the United States had barred even the most incidental contact with Jundallah, according to both intelligence officers, the same was not true for Israel's Mossad. The memos also detail CIA field reports saying that Israel's recruiting activities occurred under the nose of U.S. intelligence officers, most notably in London, the capital of one of Israel's ostensible allies, where Mossad officers posing as CIA operatives met with Jundallah officials.
The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad's efforts.
"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought."
Interviews with six currently serving or recently retired intelligence officers over the last 18 months have helped to fill in the blanks of the Israeli false-flag operation. In addition to the two currently serving U.S. intelligence officers, the existence of the Israeli false-flag operation was confirmed to me by four retired intelligence officers who have served in the CIA or have monitored Israeli intelligence operations from senior positions inside the U.S. government.
The CIA and the White House were both asked for comment on this story. By the time this story went to press, they had not responded. The Israeli intelligence services -- the Mossad -- were also contacted, in writing and by telephone, but failed to respond. As a policy, Israel does not confirm or deny its involvement in intelligence operations.
There is no denying that there is a covert, bloody, and ongoing campaign aimed at stopping Iran's nuclear program, though no evidence has emerged connecting recent acts of sabotage and killings inside Iran to Jundallah. Many reports have cited Israel as the architect of this covert campaign, which claimed its latest victim on Jan. 11 when a motorcyclist in Tehran slipped (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/iranian-n ... w224oFKOuI) a magnetic explosive device under the car of Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a young Iranian nuclear scientist. The explosion killed Roshan, making him the fourth scientist assassinated in the past two years. The United States adamantly denies it is behind these killings.
According to one retired CIA officer, information about the false-flag operation was reported up the U.S. intelligence chain of command. It reached CIA Director of Operations Stephen Kappes, his deputy Michael Sulick, and the head of the Counterintelligence Center. All three of these officials are now retired. The Counterintelligence Center, according to its website (https://www.cia.gov/offices-of-cia/inte ... ic-ag.html), is tasked with investigating "threats posed by foreign intelligence services."
The report then made its way to the White House, according to the currently serving U.S. intelligence officer. The officer said that Bush "went absolutely ballistic" when briefed on its contents.
"The report sparked White House concerns that Israel's program was putting Americans at risk," the intelligence officer told me. "There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians."
Israel's relationship with Jundallah continued to roil the Bush administration until the day it left office, this same intelligence officer noted. Israel's activities jeopardized the administration's fragile relationship with Pakistan, which was coming under intense pressure from Iran to crack down on Jundallah. It also undermined U.S. claims that it would never fight terror with terror, and invited attacks in kind on U.S. personnel.
"It's easy to understand why Bush was so angry," a former intelligence officer said. "After all, it's hard to engage with a foreign government if they're convinced you're killing their people. Once you start doing that, they feel they can do the same."
A senior administration official vowed to "take the gloves off" with Israel, according to a U.S. intelligence officer. But the United States did nothing -- a result that the officer attributed to "political and bureaucratic inertia."
"In the end," the officer noted, "it was just easier to do nothing than to, you know, rock the boat." Even so, at least for a short time, this same officer noted, the Mossad operation sparked a divisive debate among Bush's national security team, pitting those who wondered "just whose side these guys are on" against those who argued that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
The debate over Jundallah was resolved only after Bush left office when, within his first weeks as president, Barack Obama drastically scaled back joint U.S.-Israel intelligence programs targeting Iran, according to multiple serving and retired officers.
The decision was controversial inside the CIA, where officials were forced to shut down "some key intelligence-gathering operations," a recently retired CIA officer confirmed. This action was followed in November 2010 by the State Department's addition (http://www.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... group.html) of Jundallah to its list of foreign terrorist organizations -- a decision that one former CIA officer called "an absolute no-brainer."
Since Obama's initial order, U.S. intelligence services have received clearance to cooperate with Israel on a number of classified intelligence-gathering operations focused on Iran's nuclear program, according to a currently serving officer. These operations are highly technical in nature and do not involve covert actions targeting Iran's infrastructure or political or military leadership.
"We don't do bang and boom," a recently retired intelligence officer said. "And we don't do political assassinations."
Israel regularly proposes conducting covert operations targeting Iranians, but is just as regularly shut down, according to retired and current intelligence officers. "They come into the room and spread out their plans, and we just shake our heads," one highly placed intelligence source said, "and we say to them -- 'Don't even go there. The answer is no.'"
Unlike the Mujahedin-e Khalq, the controversial exiled Iranian terrorist group that seeks the overthrow of the Tehran regime and is supported by former leading U.S. policymakers, Jundallah is relatively unknown -- but just as violent. In May 2009, a Jundallah suicide bomber blew himself up inside a mosque in Zahedan, the capital of Iran's southeastern Sistan-Baluchistan province bordering Pakistan, during a Shiite religious festival. The bombing killed 25 Iranians and wounded scores of others.
The attack enraged Tehran, which traced the perpetrators to a cell operating in Pakistan. The Iranian government notified (http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8807281564) the Pakistanis of the Jundallah threat and urged them to break up the movement's bases along the Iranian-Pakistani border. The Pakistanis reacted sluggishly in the border areas, feeding Tehran's suspicions that Jundallah was protected by Pakistan's intelligence services.
The 2009 attack was just one in a long line of terrorist attacks attributed to the organization. In August 2007, Jundallah kidnapped (http://www.jamestown.org/programs/gta/s ... no_cache=1) 21 Iranian truck drivers. In December 2008, it captured and executed (http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2011/au ... -jundallah) 16 Iranian border guards -- the gruesome killings were filmed, in a stark echo of the decapitation of American businessman Nick Berg in Iraq at the hands of al Qaeda's Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. In July 2010, Jundallah conducted (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/world ... ehran.html) a twin suicide bombing in Zahedan outside a mosque, killing dozens of people, including members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.
The State Department aggressively denies that the U.S. government had or has any ties to Jundallah. "We have repeatedly stated, and reiterate again that the United States has not provided support to Jundallah," a spokesman wrote (http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-current ... errorists/) in an email to the Wall Street Journal, following Jundallah's designation as a terrorist organization. "The United States does not sponsor any form of terrorism. We will continue to work with the international community to curtail support for terrorist organizations and prevent violence against innocent civilians. We have also encouraged other governments to take comparable actions against Jundallah."
A spate of stories in 2007 and 2008, including a report (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... ws_exclus/) by ABC News and a New Yorker article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008 ... fact_hersh), suggested that the United States was offering covert support to Jundallah. The issue has now returned to the spotlight with the string of assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists and has outraged serving and retired intelligence officers who fear that Israeli operations are endangering American lives.
"This certainly isn't the first time this has happened, though it's the worst case I've heard of," former Centcom chief and retired Gen. Joe Hoar said of the Israeli operation upon being informed of it. "But while false-flag operations are hardly new, they're extremely dangerous. You're basically using your friendship with an ally for your own purposes. Israel is playing with fire. It gets us involved in their covert war, whether we want to be involved or not."
The Israeli operation left a number of recently retired CIA officers sputtering in frustration. "It's going to be pretty hard for the U.S. to distance itself from an Israeli attack on Iran with this kind of thing going on," one of them told me.
Jundallah head Abdolmalek Rigi was captured (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/world ... rgent.html) by Iran in February 2010. Although initial reports claimed that he was captured by the Iranians after taking a flight from Dubai to Kyrgyzstan, a retired intelligence officer with knowledge of the incident told me that Rigi was detained by Pakistani intelligence officers in Pakistan. The officer said that Rigi was turned over to the Iranians after the Pakistani government informed the United States that it planned to do so. The United States, this officer said, did not raise objections to the Pakistani decision.
Iran, meanwhile, has consistently claimed that Rigi was snatched from under the eyes of the CIA, which it alleges supported him. "It doesn't matter," the former intelligence officer said of Iran's charges. "It doesn't matter what they say. They know the truth."
Rigi was interrogated, tried, and convicted by the Iranians and hanged on June 20, 2010. Prior to his execution, Rigi claimed (http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/126963.html) in an interview with Iranian media -- which has to be assumed was under duress -- that he had doubts about U.S. sponsorship of Jundallah. He recounted an alleged meeting with "NATO officials" in Morocco in 2007 that raised his suspicions. "When we thought about it we came to the conclusion that they are either Americans acting under NATO cover or Israelis," he said.
While many of the details of Israel's involvement with Jundallah are now known, many others still remain a mystery -- and are likely to remain so. The CIA memos of the incident have been "blue bordered," meaning that they were circulated to senior levels of the broader U.S. intelligence community as well as senior State Department officials.
What has become crystal clear, however, is the level of anger among senior intelligence officials about Israel's actions. "This was stupid and dangerous," the intelligence official who first told me about the operation said. "Israel is supposed to be working with us, not against us. If they want to shed blood, it would help a lot if it was their blood and not ours. You know, they're supposed to be a strategic asset. Well, guess what? There are a lot of people now, important people, who just don't think that's true."
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... ?page=full
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Riverwind (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
Wow, a real eye opener, back to what I was saying, you see the three countries, each now acting independent of each other, when they come together their self importance will come to the top, it will start slow but before we know what happens we will be in another full out war.
Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, Two of them are religious zealots the third is wanting to show the world that he is running his country and everybody should shake in there boots when he walks.
I just see this coming to a head and like a runaway train, its gathering speed.
River
Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, Two of them are religious zealots the third is wanting to show the world that he is running his country and everybody should shake in there boots when he walks.
I just see this coming to a head and like a runaway train, its gathering speed.
River
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punkypink (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
My whole take on this, I'll believe it when I see it. The world is not gonna break out into WW3.
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Elizabeth (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
I agree, World War is very bad for business. However, local, limited wars are great for defense contractors and the oil business. I just know whenever I start hearing the US State Department start warning countries, it seems to lead to military action, if not war. Also, I don't really trust any of this reporting, especially when it's written from a point of view of someone who allegedly knows, but offer no credentials.
We didn't sell Israel 500 of our most sophisticated bunker busters for nothing. Besides, false flag or not, the US is involved in it's own covert war against Iran too, regardless of it it assassinates people or not. We know the US strikes with drones all the time. These are targeted assassinations, despite whatever name the State Department has come up with, to name it. So saying we don't assassinate people is not accurate and probably laughable to most of the world.
I think it's pretty obvious that the US and it's allies have spies in Iran. And it's also pretty obvious that Iran is very paranoid about it. I'll bet they think everyone is a spy. But in the end what matters is how far Iran is willing to go and how far the US is willing to go to try to stop them.
The Bush Administration did nothing to prevent North Korea from becoming a nuclear power. The reason being, there was not a lot they could do. North Korea has over 100,000 artillery pieces pointed right at Seoul, South Korea. They could level it five minutes without using nukes. So barring an invasion from the North, it's unlikey we would attack North Korea.
While Iran may not have 100,000 pieces of artillery pointed Israel, they certainly could do a lot of damage to our allies in the area. So I believe we may be headed toward a limited war, meaning not using nukes, in Iran and Gulf region. If however, like in North Korea, we are not prepared to go to an all out war in the gulf, we may in fact end up with a nuclear Iran. Of course depending on what the Israeli's are willing to do. I don't see Israel being able to pull off an attack at that distance, without the help of the US. At least not a meaningful strike that would actually do enough damage to halt Iran's nuclear program.
I think Iran is all bluster. I think when push comes to shove and it means real war against the US and it's allies, it will fold like a cheap suitcase and agree to disarm. But we will see.
Elizabeth
We didn't sell Israel 500 of our most sophisticated bunker busters for nothing. Besides, false flag or not, the US is involved in it's own covert war against Iran too, regardless of it it assassinates people or not. We know the US strikes with drones all the time. These are targeted assassinations, despite whatever name the State Department has come up with, to name it. So saying we don't assassinate people is not accurate and probably laughable to most of the world.
I think it's pretty obvious that the US and it's allies have spies in Iran. And it's also pretty obvious that Iran is very paranoid about it. I'll bet they think everyone is a spy. But in the end what matters is how far Iran is willing to go and how far the US is willing to go to try to stop them.
The Bush Administration did nothing to prevent North Korea from becoming a nuclear power. The reason being, there was not a lot they could do. North Korea has over 100,000 artillery pieces pointed right at Seoul, South Korea. They could level it five minutes without using nukes. So barring an invasion from the North, it's unlikey we would attack North Korea.
While Iran may not have 100,000 pieces of artillery pointed Israel, they certainly could do a lot of damage to our allies in the area. So I believe we may be headed toward a limited war, meaning not using nukes, in Iran and Gulf region. If however, like in North Korea, we are not prepared to go to an all out war in the gulf, we may in fact end up with a nuclear Iran. Of course depending on what the Israeli's are willing to do. I don't see Israel being able to pull off an attack at that distance, without the help of the US. At least not a meaningful strike that would actually do enough damage to halt Iran's nuclear program.
I think Iran is all bluster. I think when push comes to shove and it means real war against the US and it's allies, it will fold like a cheap suitcase and agree to disarm. But we will see.
Elizabeth
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moi621 (imported)
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A-1 (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
moi621 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:14 pm It is stupid to counter bluster, with uber bluster.
Moi
Yep! I think that we are too smart for that.
DO you remember when JFK established a direct telephone contact between the Kremlin and Washington D.C. during the height of the Cold War?
I think that is it time to do the same with North Korea and Iran. This assassination stuff by the Mossad has went about far enough. I hate to say this but the Mossad is using the same tactics that the Nazis would use if they still existed. It seems that they are getting pretty nasty, even to their friends.
As far as Pakistan goes, there are so many factions in Pakistan that it is hard to figure out in whose headquarters to put the friggin' telephone.
One thing is sure. It will not go in binLaden's place, will it?
:shot191:
The news on Friday said that Iran had the power to close the gulf of Hormuse, but just one time. After that one time they would no longer have a Navy.
You saw what happened to Baghdad, well, with the air power that America has in the Middle East the Iranian Navy hasn't got a prayer.
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gunnutz (imported)
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Re: Are we seeing WWIII in the making?
On the subject of false flags and assassination
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=36847
Yeap its played both ways.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=36847
Yeap its played both ways.