fhunter wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:11 am To me drive-by-wire systems in modern cars are a bit scary...

I absolutely agree with that. I remember watching a program on PBS, can't remember the title of it, about a string of crashes involving one of the latest "Airbus" airliners. Seemed there were a lot of inexplicable crashes being attributed to "pilot error," and since no pilot had survived any crash, and the flight recorders did not note that it was the on board computer that was erroneously over-riding the correct control input from the pilot that had caused all the crashes. Only after several airliners had gone down did Airbus industries really look close enough to find the real cause of the crash, which was not pilot error, but computer error, and since the computer was the final input on the fly by wire control system, the computer error cause several crashes.

I am a "shade tree mechanic," so I do actually have some experience fixing cars, and unlike most shade tree mechanics, I actually think that the newer cars with their computer controls, fuel injection and engine management systems are better than the old (and much easier to fix) automobiles. But there is no denying that many auto maker put untested and unreliable junk into their cars, personally I think Dodge/Chrysler is the worst about this untested garbage in their products, but all the manufacturers are guilty of it, even the legendary Toyota.

Given what I have read in this thread, I believe that it was a poorly designed floor mat and accelerator pedal combination that caused the problem, but it was an IDIOTIC design error (i.e. a three second hold to off position required to shut down the engine) that resulted in the ultimate crash and four fatalities.

I do not believe that placing some sort of emergency "kill switch" is needed to correct the idiotic design error, the best solution would be to make the standard ignition switch behave and respond in the same manner as most drivers would believe it would behave, (i.e. shut down the engine immediately when it is set to the off position).

I'm still stuck in the early 80's 5-speed RWD Toyota days. I constantly use my hand break when at low speeds and at up-hill stoplights etc. Somehow I always manage to keep them running. And I do know how to use the "kill" switch and have in the past steered safely on down the road out of doing a donut. Nowadays they call it "drifting". Actually I guess they always have called it drifting just that it was never considered any reason to have competitions over. I never have used my handbreak rigged up to do any drifting though. And years ago I probably had inadvertently turned one kid onto the art of drifting once as in "Cool! Can we do that again?" after doing a donut on snowpack but I did get us past that snow bank. Girlfriend at the time said, "NO!!! My God NO! I think my heart stopped even!"

I prefer having a car that you can work on is all. I guess if there were more honest mechanics out there I would have nothing to do with mechanicking since I really do hate it but the fact is that if you have a car you had better know what is going on or else you'll get soaked. And even at that some mechanic might just go ahead and soak you anyway pretty much calling you stupid. My luck with mechanics is close to zero but with myself, I can usually get the job done right although much slower than what it probably should take.

I wonder how they figured out that that the gas pedal was stuck and it wasn't something along the lines of the driver just committing suicide? Do cars have black boxes in them now, too? Nobody survived so nobody can really say, can they?

Yes, cars have enough electronics in their control systems to allow recording the last few minutes of driving. Tickets have been issued and convictions made from this information. My Daughter's car insurance carrier insists that her car have a device that records her driving and transmits the data to the insurance company at intervals. A little too big brother-like for me. --FLO--

This is why I'm looking for a '77 or so model that's been well-kept. Right now, I don't care if it gets 3 mpg. Tired of this 'software driven' bullshit in cars.

The mid 70's might not be a good era because of the cars tendency to, diesel.

If I could, I would look for a first generation Chevy II Nova. The good one before it was redesigned to break down.

Or, maybe a 60's something Valiant with the slant 6.

No smog equipment as to mess up those mechanical engines.

I'm pretty happy with my big bad 1994 Ford Expedition with 4WD and the big 8. Always, feel secure on slippery roads. The gasoline saver is the first generation of Toyota Rav4. It is a wonder to consider both my cars are over ten years old and not falling apart like a 5 year old car use to on trim and engine alike.

Moi

I have read some claims that;

1) turning off the key does not necessarily stop the motor,

the key just talks to the computer. Supposedly you have

to turn it off then hold a button in for three seconds.

2) same situation with the gear shift knob.

Way back at the top of this thread I said the cop that hit the wall at 120 MPH should have turned off the key and put the car in neutral, this last week Toyota said the same thing.

Hell, put the damn thing in park but anything but scream.

River

moi621 (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:28 pm The mid 70's might not be a good era because of the cars tendency to, diesel.

Moi

I have two disco era Ford's with 460 engines and have never had a problem having them diesel. I had a '68 Dodge with a 383 years ago that would diesel forever if not shut off while still in drive. Some cars are just like that no matter what you try to do.

moi621 (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:28 pm The mid 70's might not be a good era because of the cars tendency to, diesel.

Let it idle for some time before shutting down the engine - this will cool it down and prevent detonation. Used that on Moskvitch 2140 - it works, but may be our climate is colder.