IbPervert (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:08 pm Sounds good on paper, but what about life forms the exist in the mid-ocean areas already?

Mid ocean is pretty void except for migrations.

The limiting factor is nutrients.

There was a Discovery Channel or some such channel program

where it was done and within weeks they had a filter feeding

whale shark, or some such, among other fishes.

Supply the needs of the Plankton and the life will come.

Could maybe harvest some of the plankton for biofuels

Maybe, huh?

...

moi621 (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:01 pm Another Out of the Box, Idea

Mid ocean surface water lacks nutrients.

Therefore plankton have a hard time thriving.

....

I think you better check your facts. Mid ocean surface water does contain fish and plankton.

nullorchis (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:19 am Or, a car that runs on hydrogen, which is extracted from desalinated ocean water, via a mechanism in the car which divides water into hydrogen and oxygen, which then results in more oxygen going into the atmosphere and less CO2 going into the atmosphere.

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/hydrogen ... d-cars.htm

It is true that water can be sepreated into hydrogen and oxygen, but it isn't that simple. I remember the experiment from highschool chemistry. Place a tank of water on a table then at eack end put a beaker upside down in the bottom, making sure the beakers are also filled with water. Insert a wire with a metal disk under each beaker and connect them to a small DC power source without electrocuting yourself in the process. In time some water will seperate into hydrogen on one end, oxygen on the other. The problem is that this is very energy inefficient. Water is a highly stable compound and it takes more energy to seperate it than you can gain from the hydrogen as fuel.

Currently pure hydrogen is extracted from other compunds. I believe they use propane. You can do better by just burning clean propane as a fuel. I have seen cars with conversion kits added to run on propane. Many warehouses or factories use propane powered forklifts because they do not produce toxic exhaust inside a biulding.

Seperating hydrogen from water on any significant scale would take a nuclear power plant for an enegy source. Do you want that?

moi621 (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:55 pm Mid ocean is pretty void except for migrations.

The limiting factor is nutrients.

There was a Discovery Channel or some such channel program

where it was done and within weeks they had a filter feeding

whale shark, or some such, among other fishes.

Supply the needs of the Plankton and the life will come.

Could maybe harvest some of the plankton for biofuels

Maybe, huh?

Mid Ocean is a desert but even in the desert life survives. A desert environment does not support as much life as a rain forest, but it does have life and a purpose. Remove that purpose and your affecting other pieces of the world environment. Some of the affects are obvious up front but others are hidden or disguised.

IbPervert (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:08 am Mid Ocean is a desert but even in the desert life survives. A desert environment does not support as much life as a rain forest, but it does have life and a purpose. Remove that purpose and your affecting other pieces of the world environment. Some of the affects are obvious up front but others are hidden or disguised.

But, this will make River happy

To remove all that CO2 via extra plankton.

BTW I learned this trick in a second year high school Biology class

in the mid 60's and recently - a year or so- saw it accomplished on

Discovery Channel. But, their gizmo was self propelling water from the

bottom to the top and eventually broke. But, it did create a fishery

as I described.

Moi

Dave (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:31 am I think you better check your facts. Mid ocean surface water does contain fish and plankton.

Alas, nutrients are found in coastal waters from upwellings from the oceanic floor. The mid ocean is fairly barren, though seeding it with iron sulfate with stimulate algae growth and boost the krill and sea life.

...the whole thing sounds pretty ABYSSMAL to me...

...

micropenis (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:41 am Seperating hydrogen from water on any significant scale would take a nuclear power plant for an enegy source. Do you want that?

Actually, fusion power would be more like it. That's why someone referred to the development of commercially practical fusion power generation as "God's Big Fix".

coinflipper_21 (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:20 pm Actually, fusion power would be more like it. That's why someone referred to the development of commercially practical fusion power generation as "God's Big Fix".

You want a conversation about Fusion Power you have to start a thread with the title --- it's only twenty years away and it has been twenty years away for the last 50 years... It's the miracle of Nuclear Fusion Energy!

I hope that gives you'all a hint about fusion power...

So I pick up this Harvard Business Review for an airport read and there is this interesting article:

http://hbr.org/2009/11/how-to-jump-star ... onomy/ar/1

A main point is that if we are ever going to advance with clean energy, we have to think of entire systems and not just bolting something onto an existing thing and calling it an environmental advance.

An example cited was a company called Better Place. I think a reasonable and brief summary would be this.This guy wants to help push electric vehicles. He is thinking about it. One problem is the battery. It cost a lot. The current cars are marketed with a 10 year warranty. To have a 10 year life, for reasons which I do not understand the battery can only be drained 50% before recharging. So he started thinking about separating the battery from the car. They developed a battery pack that could be changed in two minutes. Then Bill Clinton asked if they could not make the price so low that it would be a barrier to entry for others. He asked if they could make the car free. That led to the cell phone business model where the equipment is free and the fees are for the service. Our hero then began to think of the idea as selling 'miles driven' as a cell phone company charges for minutes used. The idea has been tweeked with stuff like recharging batteries at night so the utility can balance their load. He needed a demo market for this approach. He found the perfect one. The average person only drives 20 miles a day. It was small enough and populated enough that there would be a lot of customers in a small area, making infrastructure easier to build and cheaper per person. The government there was progressive and very interested in doing anything to reduce the potential for oil to be used as an economic weapon. Also, almost the only time a vehicle leaves the place is when it is stolen. And that place is - Israel. He has won government and some large company backing. They are now building the infrastructure for re-charging across the country.

How is this for thinking outside the box, moi?