Dana Lane (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:41 pm I searched the forums and couldn't find any posts and also didn't think this fit in chemical or surgical castration so I posted here. Feel free to move it if it is in the wrong area.

What are your thoughts about taking the individual testicles and rotating them in say a clockwise (or counter clockwise) direction which should twist the cord and blood vessels into a state that is closed. Would this be the same thing as banding except not destroying the sac as well?

I remember my brother had to go to the doctor once because one of his testicles got twisted and he said it got swollen as big as a grapefruit (may have been exaggerating).

Thoughts?

I have tried this many times. I have not found a way to keep them twisted long enough to cause damage. You would have to have them twisted for over 4 hours at least. 24 hours is the point of no return where surgeons must remove them.

Dana Lane (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:41 pm I searched the forums and couldn't find any posts and also didn't think this fit in chemical or surgical castration so I posted here. Feel free to move it if it is in the wrong area.

What are your thoughts about taking the individual testicles and rotating them in say a clockwise (or counter clockwise) direction which should twist the cord and blood vessels into a state that is closed. Would this be the same thing as banding except not destroying the sac as well?

I remember my brother had to go to the doctor once because one of his testicles got twisted and he said it got swollen as big as a grapefruit (may have been exaggerating).

Thoughts?

I saw a TV programme about this and vets use it to keep bleeding to a minimum .But, first the sack has to be cut up the middle then the testicles twisted one by one, therefore, it might be a little tricky twisting the ball inside an uncut sack. However, you are right about the twisting it is a common practice with vets—and it really stops the bleeding.

saywhat (imported) wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:43 pm I have tried this many times. I have not found a way to keep them twisted long enough to cause damage. You would have to have them twisted for over 4 hours at least. 24 hours is the point of no return where surgeons must remove them.

From my notes on the academic literature:

“Acute ischemia through torsion or ligation of spermatic cords for as little as 5 hours,

followed by reperfusion, causes irreversible loss of spermatogenesis”(Bergh et al., 2001)

“In rats, a 5h reduction in flow to approximately 70% of the normal value may be sufficient to induce death among spermatogonia and early primary spermatocytes. High-grade ischemia causes necrotic damage to all parts of the testis.” (Bergh et al., 2001)

Bergh A, Collin O and Lisbrant E (2001).

Effects of acute graded reduction in

testicular blood flow on testicular

morphology in the adult rat. Biology of

Reproduction, 64: 13

Also, see page 58 of Liautard's "Animal Castration" (https://archive.org/details/animalcastration00liau) for a concise and stepwise description of bistournage (and how to perform it). The manipulations are eminently possible on humans, but the structure of the human groin frustrates the securing of the testicles in the upper portion of the scrotum without enough room to untwist. Perhaps it might be more fruitful to secure them at the extreme bottom of the sac, for it seems unlikely in horses and bulls that the testicles could be shoved up behind the pubic fat pad; in humans, they can be stuffed up there with room to spare (and to untwist).

Having performed such manipulations on myself, sure in the knowledge that it would fail, I managed to keep them twisted until it began to become uncomfortable - about half an hour, well short of the documented danger zone. I was pleasantly surprised, for the pain was perhaps only a quarter as intense as my usual chronic orchialgia pains. Either there's a significant increase in the pain later on, though it seemed to level out at somewhat under a 2 on the ten-step pain scale, or I have had my standards thoroughly wrecked over the last year or two.

That was about 5.5 years ago, both former posters are gone. I doubt they'll be seeing this.