LIFE WITHOUT TESTOSTERONE IS VERY VERY POSSIBLE AND DOABLE!!! Fact is that you really don't need much of it at all. Most of folks without much testosterone do not suffer from depression. Ask an old geezer or a lady or ten year old kid. And if your balls are defective, undersized, or just not there anymore you're probably enjoying life more than the average Joe. Everybody gets depressed from time to time so... whatever. The one and ONLY one purpose for testosterone is for procuring a mate for procreative purposes and that's it. There are other hormones like progesterone and non-feminizing estrogens that help out with your heart and bone tissues and so forth. A couple of things that testosterone WILL do is cause baldness in some (depending upon which pattern you have inherited) and build muscles (estradiol is attracted to muscles). Notice I said estradiol and not estrogen. Estradiol is one of the feminizing estrogens. Most estrogens are in fact non-feminizing. You can find more about it on Wikipedia. Testosterone is actually considered to be a masculinizing estrogen by some. It was recommended to me a long long time ago that I more than anybody should make sure that I eat my "greens" and beans. Later on a few years ago I have found out about "phytoestrogens" which is something else to look up on Wikipedia or much better the encyclopedia. (Remember estrogen does not necessarily mean feminizing estrogen scientifically speaking.) In a lot of people the body will take the excess testosterone and change it into estradiol giving an initial effect of a beard and muscles but then an after effect of breast growth: The classic "Bearded Lady" syndorome. Testosterone just isn't for everyone and it's absence DOES NOT in of itself cause depression.

devi (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:00 pm LIFE WITHOUT TESTOSTERONE IS VERY VERY POSSIBLE AND DOABLE!!!

Dear Dev. I only just found your post and I can't thank you enough for your good sense. I'm about to try (for the second time) to live without HRT and had anticipated as a certainty that I would experience unpleasant side effects like tiredness and depression. What I failed to consider, and must thank you for pointing out, is that a lot of people with normal hormone levels also have these experiences. Your logic and good sense has given me one heck of a boost.

Sincere thanks, best wishes and big hugs.

I have been with out any form of t or hrt for 1 year and 3 months

Mentally I really don’t know its not there , physically only I am reminded

Hot sweets , mussel mass disappearing , lose of being able to get fully erect

And stay erect long enough to have sex , redistribution of body fat

Happy , moor relaxed , lose of anger/temper

Lately, I've been taking .625mg Estrine (brand name estradiol) tablets every morning with surprisingly good results. I was worried about my osteopenia which I do have and does run in the family. So I found the Estrine from a mail order and am now taking them along with my vitamins with greens, calcium, and tiny aspirins. (In the US and Canada estradiol is considered a prescription item whereas in England and other countries it is not. .625 estradiol is what is now prescribed for post-menopausal women nowadays without any progesterone necessary. In my case it would be better if I were to take androstenedione which is the biological precursor to both testosterone and estradiol and which actually is the necessary hormone for bone and heart maintenance. For my condition my body had never produced much testosterone nor estadiol in my lifetime. But now I am 52. So since estradiol is only one degree from androstenedione and can be back produced by the body, is much more cheaper, more readily available, and more consistent as a product, I settle for Estrine. (Have to remind everyone here that I've already had breast growth since puberty so this is not a worry for me. In essence I am post-menopausal since my teen-age years.)

Even with functioning balls, or with dead/no balls plus taking testosterone supplements one can be very low in useable testosterone and be living the life of a virtual eunuch. Without enough "free" testosterone in the blood one will be living a low (useable) T life. Taking HRT is no guarantee of experiencing a high free T life. Low to medium testosterone production in combination with high binding proteins will have an impact on one's "masculinity" (so to speak). There are herbs claimed to help minimize testosterone being bound up in protein. But that is a different topic.

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"Testosterone is produced by the testicular Leydig cells in males and by the adrenal glands (25%), ovaries (25%), and peripheral conversion of circulating androstenedione (50%) in females.1 In both males and females, the majority of circulating testosterone is protein bound. Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), the major binding protein, binds 60% to 70% of the testosterone in circulation. The remaining testosterone circulates weakly bound to other proteins, primarily albumin, and as free (not bound to protein) testosterone. Albumin-bound testosterone accounts for 30% to 40% of the testosterone in circulation, and free, approximately 2%.

Testosterone bound to SHBG is biologically inactive because of the strong affinity between SHBG and testosterone. Free testosterone is biologically active, as is albumin bound (due to weak albumin-testosterone binding). Albumin-bound and free testosterone, together, are frequently referred to as the biologically active or bioavailable fraction. In most situations, the bioavailable fraction increases as total testosterone increases or as SHBG decreases."

One might look for food/herbs/drugs that help minimize SHBG if one wants to obtain maximum bioavailable testosterone. A high T level might be meaningless if the bioavailabale T level is low. You could be pumping T supplements into your body and be wasting a lot of money and getting no results if SHBG is abnormally high. (or so it seems from what I read on the internet.......I'm no expert)

Low testosterone can sometimes be difficult on those of us who wish to live a more masculine life, however at the same time it may be difficult for some to function with higer Testosterone.

We all have a diffrent effect to the androgens as well as our sexual prefrence being added in as well.

I guess it just depends on the person, it is something to think about..

I know this is old, but I feel that I need to correct this. The statement that “body builders are on 200 mg of testosterone per week” (paraphrased), is way incorrect. We are often on 500 mg to 1 gram per week as well as other hormones, some of which have never been really tested in humans. Honestly, my minimum is 250 mg per week when I’m “cruising” and 500-750 mg per week when I’m “blasting.” Not trying to be a jerk, just want to keep it real.

Sometimes reviving an old thread can give it a new perspective.

I agree, and it also allows for whatever we have learned to update the info to be more current science...

I'm still trying to figure out what the best options for me will be as I travel this path... I want to get rid of the undercurrent of frustrated drive that leaves me wanting but unable because of my SCI, and really like the descriptions of eunuch calm. At the same time my SCI already makes me high risk for osteoporosis, and I already have osteopenia, so going hormone free seems very high risk....

But it seems like HRT w/ testosterone defeats / eliminates the benefits of castration if it still leaves you horny... What is the point of getting rid of the balls and replacing their output w/ chemical imitations....

It seems that HRT with estrogens does the same sorts of things that T does, with possibly better mental effects, but risks high levels of feminization. I'm OK w/ some feminizing, but want to still present as 'normal male'... However Devi mentioned that there are 'non-feminizing' estrogens, what about those?

WheelyCurious

My experience on Low T was this:

All day, every day, I felt like I just woke up. That was my mental clarity...I just woke up...every day...all day...

My memory was garbage. A dear friend was looking at CANCER and I was super angry she wasn't at work on the day of her consultation. I didn't remember that MY FRIEND might have CANCER.

I don't even know what else was going on because I don't remember. There are months of my life that I don't remember because of low T.

My T prescription hasn't made my life perfect, but I remember if my friends might be dying now.