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Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:37 am
by Kortpeel (imported)
IbPervert (imported) wrote: Tue May 13, 2008 11:29 am God is all loving, and does not create disease or cause problems of any sort! How can a God that claims to be all loving purposely inflict plague, and disease down on people that he claims he loves very much?

Hi All,

Hasn't anyone else noticed that just when you've got your life in order and on track the Big Guy up there throws you a curved one?

Presumably this is to teach us humility and just to remind us who's got the whip hand.

Regards

Kortpeel

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:25 am
by ramses (imported)
mrt (imported) wrote: Thu May 15, 2008 12:37 pm I heard this on MPR and can't remember who said it. I know he was searching for some answers and tried various things like helping Mother Teresa. Dang- my memory since HRT is better but... Anyway I thought it had the ring of truth to what God "MIGHT" say if asked that question. Anyway this was a question that always stuck in my head and when he said this I kind of slapped my head because it made sense.

There was also a good book that was titled "What Jesus Said" which tried to examine not what other people "Think" Jesus "Meant" but what he said with less "My 2 cents worth" and I was blown away. I thought that this IS the real deal...

What a loving woman...

"It is a just retribution for improper sexual misconduct"

[Mother Teresa, on AIDS]

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:23 pm
by A-1 (imported)
ramses (imported) wrote: Fri May 30, 2008 11:25 am What a loving woman...

"It is a just retribution for improper sexual misconduct"

[Mother Teresa, on AIDS]

Well, then, maybe it should also happen to the CELEBATE, for not being fruitful and replenishing the Earth... 😄

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:25 pm
by JesusA (imported)
genderless (imported) wrote: Fri May 30, 2008 9:13 am Can't forget Is. 56:4-5 There is some difference between Jewish and Gentile

regulations. Remember the circumcision argument.

Just what, I’m sure, a number of you have feared – another lecture on the Bible from Jesus.

While scattered through the Old Testament are several negative statements about eunuchs (despite at least two of the prophets having been eunuchs themselves – Daniel and Nehemiah), as Genderless points out, Isaiah 56:4–5 is very eunuch-positive:

Isaiah 56

3 [D]o not let the eunuch say, “I am just a dry tree.”

4 For thus says the Lord:
jlc9292 (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:34 pm To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths,
who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant,

5 I will give, in my house and within my walls,
jlc9292 (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:34 pm a monument and a name better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. [NRSV]

This is fully compatible with the eunuch-positive statement in Matthew 19:12:

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. [KJV]

Genderless then points out the differences in regard to the importance of circumcision, though without giving any details. This gives me an entry for a brief lecture on PaulÂ’s Epistle to the Galatians, where he clearly states that circumcision is no longer required for Christians.

Galatians 5

2 Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.

3 I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law.

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love.

7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.

9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

10 I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine; and he who is troubling you will bear his judgment, whoever he is.

11 But if I, brethren, still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? In that case the stumbling block of the cross has been removed.

12 I wish those who unsettle you would mutilate themselves!

and later

Galatians 6

12 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh that would compel you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.

13 For even those who receive circumcision do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may glory in your flesh.

14 But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. [RSV]

Why would Paul spend such an inordinate amount of space condemning circumcision? On factor that most seem to overlook is the obvious one of audience. This letter was addressed specifically to the churches of Galatia, a region that is now in central Turkey.

Galatia was the home of the faith centered in the Mother of the Gods that was the most serious competitor to Christianity in the early centuries of the faith. As IÂ’ve pointed out in other posts, the Vatican is built on top of the ruins of the largest temple to the Mother of the Gods in Rome and the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore (the largest church in Rome dedicated to Mary, Mother of God) is built on top of the site where the testicles of new priests of the Mother of the Gods were buried after they were castrated.

Both Roman law and Roman popular thought of the period saw castration and circumcision as closely related. Male genital mutilation was male genital mutilation. Both were equally condemned in law (though allowed in practice).

Paul was struggling to convert the inhabitants of Galatia to his vision of Christianity. The major competition was the priests of the Mother of the Gods, all of whom had been castrated. Paul seeks to dissuade his audience from getting circumcised. His motivation is critical: “Paul saw circumcision as an especially problematic ritual in a context in which ritual castration was practiced.” (Elliott 2004, 233)

PaulÂ’s letter implies that the Galatians seek deeds of power through circumcision, just as the galli, the priests of the Mother of the Gods, do through their castration. PaulÂ’s emphasis on cursing and blessing thoughout the epistle also mirrors their importance to the galli and their followers.

Paul, in essence, creates a choice for the Galatians – they can either stay with Paul’s gospel or opt for circumcision, which would take them back into the world dominated by the Mother of the Gods and away from Christ.

BIBLIOGRAPY:

Elliott, Susan, 2004. Cutting too close for comfort: PaulÂ’s Letter to the Galatians in its Anatolian cultic context. (Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press). 391 pp.

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:40 pm
by IbPervert (imported)
IMO Paul was the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity. He twisted the message of love that Jesus left and turned it into his own wants and needs. Personally I think Paul only said that Jesus appeared to him, so he could get people to follow him and do his bidding.

What ever Paul said in the bible needs to be taken with a grain of salt

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:37 pm
by transward (imported)
Originally Posted by IbPervert

"
IbPervert (imported) wrote: Tue May 13, 2008 11:29 am God is all loving, and does not create disease or cause problems of any sort! How can a God that claims to be all loving purposely inflict plague, and disease down on people that he claims he loves very much?
"

If God exists and created us then he also created the plague bacillus and perhaps loves it, or it is, at least, a part of his Great Design. As Burton wrote

"And still the Weaver plies his loom,

Whose warp and weft is wretched man

Weaving the unpatterned dark design

So dark we doubt it owns a plan.

Transward

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:00 pm
by kennath7 (imported)
Paul was talking to the gentiles

The argument was that in order for the gentiles to come in to covenant with god

And be adopted in to the house of Israel they must under go circumcision

[Gen 17:7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

That was before Christ redeemed all man kind by his blood which is the new covenant

And that is what Paul was explaining is that the very Jews who where enforcing the law

Was not obeying the law them selves which said law was a covenant not a law

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:28 pm
by IbPervert (imported)
kennath7 (imported) wrote: Sat May 31, 2008 5:00 pm Paul was talking to the gentiles

The argument was that in order for the gentiles to come in to covenant with god

And be adopted in to the house of Israel they must under go circumcision

[Gen 17:7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

That was before Christ redeemed all man kind by his blood which is the new covenant

And that is what Paul was explaining is that the very Jews who where enforcing the law

Was not obeying the law them selves which said law was a covenant not a law

So, Paul is responsible for butchering millions of penis's down through the years!.

Paul was trying to 2nd guess what God wanted.

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:58 pm
by amahl_shukup (imported)
randy (imported) wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:50 pm hi im randy im new here

im a born again Christian, i want to stay in God's will at all times. i have prayed for over a year about becoming a eunuch and so far i have had nothing but peace and open doors. in the bible there is not much about castration.. the only verse in the NT about eunuchs is matthew 19:12 but that verse doesnt really make perfect sense to me. i take it as spiritual and not a decree to become castrated. in the law there is Deuteronomy 23:1 which reads "He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD." how did you as a Christian, decide that castration was acceptable in Gods eyes ?

⛵

I don't usually like to burst people's bubbles or dearly held mythologies, but speaking as a recovering Southern Baptist myself, I finally did some deep searching into the whole Christian thing, read tons of books and essays and documents, and found.... nothing. Outside of the gospels (now dated by many theologians and scholars and historians at 170-180 AD, there is no evidence that any such person as Jesus Christ ever existed. There are some proven forgeries, such as the Josephus passage (called the Testimonium Flavium), an ever-so brief passage about Jesus, but it's been shown to be a 4th century forgery. And even more curious, there are absolutely no contemporary writings by people who lived in Judea at the time and left a great deal of writings, and not a single one of them wrote anything about Jesus...no feeding the multitudes, no raising the dead, no healing the sick... nothing, almost (no..exactly) as if he didn't exist at all.

So believe what you want or need to believe, but if you go by the evidence, or the lack of it, a reasonable, rational person will come to the obvious conclusion that no such person existed. The entire church structure did not become widespread until after the Council of Nicea in 326 AD. Read "The Christ Conspiracy" and "Suns of God" by Acharya S. Or "The Truth About Jesus" by former minister M.M. Mangasarian (it's free online, just download it). ...or "The Jesus Puzzle" by Earl Doherty. There are many others, but these will get you started on the road to the truth.

Now, how does that relate to becoming a eunuch? Perhaps not at all, but I jsut thought it would be important to you in making such an unalterable decision to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, not for some mythology you were taught, like I was, when you were young and have not given up yet. The truth really WILL set you free, so read the books I've mentioned about with an open mind. Happy trails.

Re: biblical view on castration?

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:21 pm
by kennath7 (imported)
IbPervert (imported) wrote: Sat May 31, 2008 5:28 pm So, Paul is responsible for butchering millions of penis's down through the years!.

Paul was trying to 2nd guess what God wanted.

Forgive me for not clearly explaining

Paul was telling the gentiles and the Jews that because of the atonement Christ made

Which became the new covenant circumcision for the gentiles was no longer a requirement to make a covenant with god and that those who where not circumcised

Or those who chose not to be circumcised where to be accepted in to the covenant

And be numbered in the church with full rights as those who where circumcised