Just to stoke the fires here, I’ll post the last paragraph from The science and ethics of castration: Lessons from the Morse case by J. Michael Bailey and Aaron S. Greenberg. The entire article is available in the Northwestern Law Review, vol. 92, pp. 1225–1245.

Finally, it will be important for states to closely monitor the outcomes of castrated sex offenders who are released into the community. We expect that there will be very few failures, but failures there will be. This is no different than for other categories of criminals (except that castrated sex offenders are probably much less dangerous). As we have argued, the castration option should not require that it always works. Recognizing this ahead of time may diminish the chance that highly publicized failures will irrationally distort a policy that works well, on average. Of course, it is important to evaluate whether releasing castrated sex offenders works sufficiently well to justify the practice. Available evidence suggests that it probably does, and better evidence will not exist until it is tried on a more extensive basis.

J. Michael Bailey is one of the acknowledged experts in the field of sex research. I do not know Aaron Greenberg, but his degree is in law.

I am all for voluntary castrations. I would not be upset if the state would pay for them. If they are voluntary an innocent man wrongly accused would of course not agree to it. Of course a molester who is castrated is taking a preventative step to reduce future molestations. His past acts still deserve the current sentence he received. I think it is great that he wants to stop but that should not absolve past acts. All castrated sex offenders should still register so the states can keep track and record recidivism rates. We will then know how succesful the treatment is. I am against his being marked so he would not be able to find work or employment. I also believe that once time is served the punishment is over and so the torment he would receive being marked would be cruel and unusual.

As far as rehabilitation is concerned some learn their lesson before the length of their sentence is over and some never learn. Pedophiles have the lowest rates of success in not reoffending unless they are chemically or surgically castrated. When they register and periodicaly I think their T levels should be checked to ensure they are not taking repalcement therapy and able and willing to offend again.

n3rf (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:24 pm Thanks MRT and A-1. I needed that. But in my view at this moment at least none of these things belong in the Court or Legal system but should somehow be done "privately" or something. The legal system only seems to make it "worse" than it really is. How worse than it is - how do You explain it ?? You NEVER get the real story and no-body wants to know the real story. Even the "damages" are sort of "blown-out-of-Proportion" every time. The people in the White House works under a lot of stress, so what Clinton did with his friends was only an adult game to release stress. I really doubt that Church People who loves young and old would have any intent to HARM anyone. So there goes my - soapbox - of this morning. Stay healthy and be nice to each and everyone .. N3RF

Look I don't want to just come out looking angry with these posts but everyone please be clear this hits a nerve for me and I have to admit that I'm not 100% rational about this topic.

If the "real" story was published we would have towns people with torches storming the jails and lynching people. No, obviously I'm against that for obvious reasons. But the truth would sicken a cockroach. Mothers helping their "boyfriends" rape a kid under 10 years old. Oh I can't even go on. It gets worse and worse and makes me sick just thinking about it. If you don't "believe" it I do understand. The human brain blows a fuse at some point when its confronted with the real horror out there. We get a pretty sanitary view of everything and this is "nice" but false. And its not just the big cities. Little rural towns have these pieces of human garbage just as much as the big towns. Its criminal in the real sense of the word that this happens but what stinks is how often it happens over and over again.

I remember reading about a neighborhood watch in Texas that was formed to protect the ladies in the area from a serial rapist. He was cutting open window screen with a knife, letting himself in and raping women. The watch group found a screen cut open collected the local men and they grabbed him when he tried leaving the way he came in. He got 1 year in jail. His first offense! They talked to the men that caught him and one said "If we knowed they were gonna let him loose we wouldn't given him to em. At least ways not in one piece."

Ok, I think I'm done talking about this. Too close to home.

I must reply to N3rf

You say "

n3rf (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:24 pm Even the "damages" are sort of "blown-out-of-Proportion"

"

You also say "

n3rf (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:24 pm I really doubt that Church People who loves young and old would have any intent to HARM anyone

"

To the first quote I say talk to my wife (if she doesn't hurt you before you get finished) She was abused by her father as a child and has never recovered.

To the second quote check with the kids that were molested by priests and see if what they would tell you. And I think we've only seen the tip of the ice berg.

Also check with all the kids growing up in drug addicted homes. Talk about hell they could tell you what hell is.

If we're talking about informed consenting adults? That’s their business. But when it comes to kids you'd better be looking over you shoulder because I think there is some one looking to put you away!!!! And if you wind up in prison? Child molesters don't fair well at all.

I suggest you might want to seek a counselor that could help you put a light on your opinions.

I am glad that we are all "so awake" this morning. It is good to ponder. Keep pondering. R

My current "thinking" is - "our legal system -k i l l e d-him" the Enron Mr chief. I am sorry that this company was made the tarket etc etc. He didn't make it. All our best companies do sometime weird things. I never felt right about this E N R O N campaign. That is my feeling and to prove it I bought when it happened $1,000 dollar ENRON stock on Ameritrade. Well I was new there, so there was lots to learn. Yes it went down and down and down. I think a got a few bucks back,just before that stock evaporized totally. But my feeling was there still, and I learned a lot about Ameritrade, to buy and to sell - when the time was "right".

Yes there are L O T S of topics to P O N D E R dear EA thinkers and writers etc..N3RF

Speaking of church people :

Jesus Christ is quoted in the Bible as saying, and I paraphrase,

"For one who would harm a child, it is better that he have a millstone hung around his neck and be cast into the sea."

I happen to have a millstone in my antique collection here. I also have some rope.

i think it is a correct and just thing to want the feelings to go away. i think it is a good thing if it does. and, once he has done his time and has proven he is rehabilitated, then we decide if he is allowed to come out and play. There is further research that we tend to ignore <especilly in this room> in regards to forcing castration on rapists. TRY THIS ON A CHIMPANZIE they go ape shit literally. instead of a calmer more docile pet, you get a psychopath who is frustrated and becomes totally mean and needs to be put down.

If rape is all about power, they will find a broom stick to work with or something else, or simply evolve to murder.

If we allow someone to change and by changing they become better for it. then it is a good thing indeed. if, on the other hand, we change them ourselves. we must live with the consequences.

now who is evil and who is the victem.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].

Matthew 19:12

Paolo wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:55 am Speaking of church people :

Jesus Christ is quoted in the Bible as saying, and I paraphrase,

"For one who would harm a child, it is better that he have a millstone hung around his neck and be cast into the sea."

I happen to have a millstone in my antique collection here. I also have some rope.

A STRIP-PIT would suffice Paolo. There are a lot of those close to us

A-1

Paolo wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:55 am Speaking of church people :

Jesus Christ is quoted in the Bible as saying, and I paraphrase,

"For one who would harm a child, it is better that he have a millstone hung around his neck and be cast into the sea."

I happen to have a millstone in my antique collectio

A-1 (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:14 am n here. I also have some rope.

A STRIP-PIT would suffice P

aolo. There are a lot of those close to us

The exact quotation from the New Testament is, It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. (Luke 17:2 – King James Version).

The red letters in my copy of the Bible indicate that this is supposed to be the exact and true words of Jesus (the other one).

I know Paolo well enough to know that, were he to find a child molester in his vicinity, the millstone would be the LEAST of his worries. I'm sure, too, that he and A-1 could find an appropriate strip mine pit as well. I'd be happy to join them if I were in the viciinity.

To return to the original topic of this thread, does surgical castration help a willing (and the willing is important) sexual predator to manage to control his demons?

There are certainly enough Archive members who have posted that one major reason that they have sought castration is to control their excess libido. Otherwise, the testosterone in their systems makes it impossible.

The individual who was named “James” in the Details magazine article about castration reported that, while he had never actually molested a child, he was terrified that, given the wrong set of circumstances, he would be unable to stop himself. He voluntarily visited Dr. Kimmel and had himself castrated to protect the children around him.

If he is willing, it would be very helpful for others (and for this debate) if he would be willing to write about how well he now feels that he has his demons under control. I would guess that it’s probably impossible to slay them, only to domesticate them.

Does castration work? Is it really possible for a sexual predator to control his urges and become a productive member of society again. I do, actually, believe in redemption and hope that it is really possible.