WeRNotAfraid (imported) wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:59 pm
No, no, and NO. There is obviously a distubing number of people on here who fantasize about children, particularly chilren who become mutilated/castrated for some reason. That's bad enough. To want to castrate children so they can attain some imagined state of "choirboy" or whatever the hell it is is ever more pathetic and disgusting. I don't even favor allowing youth who may be transsexuals to undergo surgery. In worst case scenario, they should be prescribed anti-androgens to delay the onset of masculinization and nothing more. When you're 18 and had more time to think about it, THEN is the time to start hormones and procede to more irreversible procedures.
I'm probably one of the very few people on here who have actually HAD orchiectomy surgery. It's a tough thing to go through, and the ill prepared can suffer serious after effects. I've known I was transgendered since I was very young, but I waited until 25 to have surgery. Why? To be on the safe side. There are plenty of regret stories out there, and on here. A lot of people regret their surgeries.
All of the mutilation fetishes, pedophilia thinly disguised under a veneer of concern ("if children have unnecessary surgery they won't grow up" ala Michal Jackson) and projecting of sexual fantasies on to minors is the reason I don't come here anymore. I'm not one of those spineless PC types that says "well, anything goes when it comes to sex and it's all relative." It's not. I'm disgusted by some of the stuff people on here imagine. Anyone thinking about children in this way needs help or to be in jail.
Pleae go back and carefully read what I said. I was speaking for myself, and others like myself, wherein we did not desire puberty for OURSELVES, not for anyone else, and certainly not like Michael Jackson. Whatever you believe or know about him, do not imply that the others here that are expressing deeply held feelings are ANYTHING like him. I find that deeply debasing approaching obscene to make that equation. You know NOTHING about me to make such a statement. I did not want puberty, and I do not like its effects now. I can not be castrated now because it would increase the clinical depression that I already suffer from and that was brought on by the START of puberty.
If you did not want castration before puberty, that is fine for you. For Tim, who was very careful and deliberate in his decision, castration before puberty was the correct choice, as it would have been in mine. That decision, by myself and Tim, does not make either one of us wrong as to what was/is appropriate for us.
The friends I speak of are NOT imaginary or fantasy. You can believe it not, I am not going to invest efforts to convince you of this. Unless you have been a Chorister that has a voice like Tim's or had the voice that Jay had and lost, don't presume to speak as though you do, and I find your dimmisveness offensive.
Tim is a 15 year-old lead chorister/lead soprano of a Welsh Cathedral choir that has toured much of Europe and his studies include music history, muxic theory and music analysis, He is active in soccer, rugby, swimming and track. And he is an A student. His decision was his, not mine; I was very careful NOT to attempt to convince him that it was "good" for him, as that if I had and it did not work out well it could destroy our friendship. At the same time, I chose NOT to attempt to dissuade him as I know how much his music means to him.
As it turns out that his testes were not going to mature, and for health reasons they would have been, most likely, excised by the time he was 18 anyway. He was in no danger of losing his voice, but when he elected to be castrated, he was not aware of that. Most choristers are not that fortunate. Most though do not possess a voice on the caliber of Tim's either and there is not much to preserve, not enough to have the boy thinking about castration.
He naturally is shy and guarded about his status, though he still showers with the other boys at school, [the staff and students were told it was due to cancer] and swims naked in practice as do all of the other boys do. It is a Welsh [British] public school so any teasing is strictly reproved. Some of the boys on the choir attend his school so that the other choirboys do know, but again, any teasing is strictly reproved.
Jay was offered castration at 12, arranged through an elder of the choir with a male nurse practitioner. His father refused to approve it, and it was not done. It is Jay's belief that part of his father's reasoning was that then Jay could later sire children, giving him him gandchildren. Well Jay is gay and will not sire children, If he chooses to be a father, he will adopt.
Just after he turned 15, puberty started and his voice quickly started to break. He was never able to move to the men's choir, his voice never returned. He still loves choirs, especially boys' choirs and he has seen many of the best choirs across Europe. He relationship with his father remains cold and stiff. Jay lost his voice and his father lost him.
Oh - yes i was in a boys' choir, and, no, my voice was nothing like Tim's is. That is not why I wanted to be castrated. I simply wanted to remain a boy [lacking testes] and saw nothing that adulthood would give me that I wanted or needed. Nothing since that time has disproven that. Other things proved that my interests were correct. You were castrrated as an adult and do not have the same experience that a castrated boy has. The differences are enormous, starting with osteoporosis and depression, the lack of those being present in a castrated boy, at least the ones I know [some whom are above 18, but they are and always will be "boys"].
You waited until you were 25 and now suffer from the exact problems that boys castrated before puberty avoid. What research that is available shows that M-to-F TG's given androgen blockers PRIOR to puberty make the transition far more easily that those not placed on them. It stands to reason, since this prevents the masculinization of the body and mind that puberty causes in a boy. Would your own transition had have been as difficult if you been on them from the Tanner stage 2 until youre were 25? Until you clearly, rationally, and definitvely answer that, do NOT deny that option to other TG children.
I have 3 TG post-op female friends, and, for them, being a boy was not nearly as traumatic as going
was. They are unanimous in wishing that that stage and the masculine results could have been avoided. Or are they Micheal Jackson pretenders too?
I have also noticed, contrary to your statement, that there has been little support for out outright castration, but that for those boys for whom delaying puberty is appropriate, that it [delaying puberty] should be available. That strikes me a sensible approach, providing what amounts to a reversible castration. You can not make it possible otherwise for a boy that wants wants to remain a boy to become old enough [15? my opinion, certainly for Tim 15 has proven to be old enough, for others, 60 is not mature enough] to get castrated; you cannot reverse puberty. Yet you posit that that boys must become men before they can decide to remain boys. That is exactly what I protest.
Given your diatribe, I do not consider that you show that you have the right to speak for anyone else. But that is precisele my original point, that only the person living in that body has that right to make that determination.
YC
A-1