I've read that locks of Lincoln's hair exist, but I doubt that enough DNA could be extracted from them to determine if Lincoln had the gene abnormality that causes Marfan's Syndrome. From what I've read, the prevailing opinion among researchers, is that he sidn't have it.

Another interesting genetic theory about Lincoln, is that he may have had some African-American ancestors--I believe this theory is discussed in the book Five Black Presidents.

DNA & Hair,

Usually, if DNA is obtained from a hair sample, it is obtained from a whole hair that has fell out or has been pulled out of the scalp. Minute fragments of tissue always come out with the root and it is this tissue that yields cells for DNA testing.

The practice of taking a lock of hair out usually involves cutting a small chock off of the end of the hair. This latter practice does not yield testable DNA because hair, like fingernails, is mostly dead cells.

At least that is my understanding. If you have hair you can usually match hair types, though. If Abraham Lincoln has any living descendants it would be possible to test them for the recessive gene for Marfan's Syndrome, but much testing would have to be involved if the gene were found to determine if the gene was present in his bloodline and to assure that it did not come from another hereditary source.

Genetics is sticky like that.

A-1

TheFraj regrets his castration

How did that happen? He seemed to be so enthusiastic about getting castrated before...

happousai (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:31 am How did that happen? He seemed to be so enthusiastic about getting castrated before...

He was. And I distinctly remember him reporting that Dr. Kimmel sat down with him and had a serious talk with him about his decision. He convinced Dr. Kimmel all was OK. Perhaps it was at the time.

So what went wrong?

At the time of Fraj's castration, my list of The Effects Of Castration was nowhere as extensive as it is now. Fraj obviously had some serious post-surgical depression. The crashing testosterone levels may have triggered a deeper, chronic depression that was previously there but not evident.

I would like to propose to the EA that perhaps I should include a SUGGESTED age limit for surgical castration, with chemical castration being suggested before that age.

18 would seem to be too young, and even at 21 most men would seem to lack the emotional maturity to reach such a major decision in their life.

So. How about age 25 as a SUGGESTED minimum age for surgical (as opposed to chemical) castration?

And again: I have NO REGRETS about my castration.

All of the above info is interesting and requires serious thought. It would be nice if the Fraj would give his own thoughts on the subject. Perhaps a few others are known and could be cajoled into giving their stories ,in the the interest of educating potential cut eunuchs.

Andrew i agree with you one hundred percent this is a very serious decission and should be thought out and not rushed into.I always feel bad when someone has regrets about a decission that thay cant undo.And this is why i as many here feel that chemical castration should be the first choice and surgery after.I have been on chemical castration now for 20 monthes and i feel the next step will be surgery because i have had the time for my body and mind to adjust to what i need.

Again i am so sorry to here that thefraj has ran into trouble and my thoughts are with him.

Andrew (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:25 pm I would like to propose to the EA that perhaps I should include a SUGGESTED age limit for surgical castration, with chemical castration being suggested before that age.

18 would seem to be too young, and even at 21 most men would seem to lack the emotional maturity to reach such a major decision in their life.

So. How about age 25 as a SUGGESTED minimum age for surgical (as opposed to chemical) castration?

And again: I have NO REGRETS about my castration.

Andrew and all readers of this thread...

Age has nothing to do with depression when compounded by Testosterone deprivation. If one is prone to depressive episodes, not aware of these events, and natural sources of Testosterone are removed, one is in for a horrific ride. When no age is immune to these events, young or old, then an age limit is idle fodder.

Robby

Guys,

It is time to stop the recriminations and the anguish. What you are talking about doing here is a bit like trying to catch a fart in a bucket.

There is no specific age that is a requirement for deciding the path that one wishes to tred in this life. If a person is at the age of consent and they wish to be castrated or they wish to seek gender re-assignment then it is their business.

Of course we all feel bad about the circumstances of The Fraj, but we cannot help it any more than he can. It was his body, his balls and his life. All we can offer now is condolences and support. But we can never fix the world by forbidding castration to those who seek it, regardless of their age. It is their life and they have the right to become who and what they choose to become.

Everybody makes mistakes. Some are innocuous and some are horribly tragic and terrible. We may have been able to persuade him to do otherwise, but maybe we could not have prevented this, either.

But you cannot make him better by forbidding the next person to follow his path. You can only point out to them The Fraj's example.

Everything in life happens for a reason. We may not know it. We may never know it in our lifetimes. Just remember, the universe is unfolding as it should. Entropy rules and even minor reversals such as life cannot stop its progression.

We are just along for the ride, so we need to make the most of it. There is little chance of controlling what we cannot control. It is a bit like attempting to steer a battleship with a wooden oar.

A-1

Robby (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:15 pm Andrew and all readers of this thread...

Age has nothing to do with depression when compounded by Testosterone deprivation. If one is prone to depressive episodes, not aware of these events, and natural sources of Testosterone are removed, one is in for a horrific ride. When no age is immune to these events, young or old, then an age limit is idle fodder.

Robby

Indeed. I already had a lot to be depressed about before

my T crashed. I was considerably more depressed by the

fact that I thought *I* would be the one deciding when and how

that happened, and had been planning on having children first.

Very seriously, on the morning of Nov.13 2002, I woke up with

a slight pain in my left testicle and without my usual morning wood,

and I (though physically intact) have been living life without T ever since.

I am a 44-yr-old graduate student and obviously one of the things I

was already depressed about (as if getting laid off in mid-2001 when the

internet bubble burst weren't bad enough already) was that after over 2

years back in grad school, I still couldn't finish my thesis.

The "eunuch calm" is not exactly an ASSET when one needs a burst of

intellectual energy to hurry up & finish writing a book.

My life seems like a total disappointment

not only to me but also to all the people who have tried to help me over

the years. It is very strange to feel resigned to the fact that one's life

is wasted and not even be able to get all that worked up about it.

Robby (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:15 pm Andrew and all readers of this thread...

Age has nothing to do with depression when compounded by Testosterone deprivation. If one is prone to depressive episodes, not aware of these events, and natural sources of Testosterone are removed, one is in for a horrific ride. When no age is immune to these events, young or old, then an age limit is idle fodder.

Robby

You are so right,

Robby (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:15 pm Age has nothing to do with depression.

I was chemically castrated for a year and loving every minute of it. The depression which I have always had did not show itself until a month after I was castrated. I am not sure if its the loss of testosterone or the loss of the testicles themselves.

As posted before the body does not like them removed and will object.

Age, there is no right age.

I do feel that the medical comunity could set up a program for us like the TGs.

1. Require councling for a time.

2. Chemical castration for a period of time.

3. Then castration by your local hospital.

Note this may not help at all, we will still have thefraj's and I dont see anyway to stop it.

Knowing what I know today, I would not change anything, with the exception that It would have been nice to be on depression medication before hand. I dont know if it would have helped but still I have no regrets.

Oh I am older then Krister, the President when I was born had red hair.

River