Within every government there are genuine good-intentioned people & those who have hidden agendas. Almost everyone thinks they are doing the right thing for the right reason. That doesnt necessarily make what they do the right and just thing to do. Even the most extreme Islamic fundamentalist believes he is doing the best thing for all concerned!

Unfortunatly it seems to me that the US administration, in its understandable desperation to have justice after 9/11, is getting confused over key issues. Those with their own selfish agendas are abusing this situation.

The results can only mean disaster. We have to look at the situation intelligently, without emotionalism, without assumptions & base all our decisions on fact & sound logic...

Fact: There is no actual physical evidence that there is any link between Sadam Hussein & Al Quaida.

Fact: The biggest threat to world security through the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction comes from N Korea, India, Pakistan etc who have Nuclear capability & threaten to use them. Iraq at best can only produce an atomic dirty bomb which, according to Nato intelligence is a lower possability than other forms of attack.

Fact: Kickin ass in the middle east by any US serviceman will only increase the Islamic back lash against western countries. If we want peace between the west & Arab nations... this is not the way to go about it.

Saddam is not a fit ruler, the people of Iraq are suffering & need relief from this. He has shown his hunger for power & domination. His regime can not be allowed to continue. But, no one nation or partnership has the authority to do this.

It belongs solely to the UN and any action must be carried out by chaps in blue hats from all corners of the globe! Their task should be containment. Goverment change should come from within the Iraqi nation itself, iinstigated by the populace... if they chose not to do this en masse then we have no right to force our choice of government on them.

Issinoho (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:07 am Almost everyone thinks they are doing the right thing for the right reason.

I ran into this at work the other day. A little old lady was picking up her order when a news announcement came over the radio, and she promptly launched into a "make war in the name of God and avenge the murdered innocents" diatribe.

She then began to wax eloquent about how Islam is not a religion, it's an excuse to make terror and that they're all going to Hell anyway, so why not help them out along the way?

When I pointed out that these Moslems in question see Christianity in much the same way, she went ballistic!

"It's NOT a religion! If you're not a Christian, you're going to Hell, that's that, and we should just blow THEM all up."

"Who's 'them'?" I asked.

"THEM! Those ... those ... heathens!" She shrieked at me, waving her 8x10's about like a battle flag.

"AH, organized religion," I sighed. Then of course, her attack focused upon ME. By the time she was done, I was literally laughing in her face.

Spluttering indignantly, she left, ranting about how the heathens should be bomed out of existence in the name of God.

Made me just wanna go take a shit on the church house steps, let me tell you! Ah, the redneck American attitude. Alive and well in the Midwest, thank you very much, Mr. Bush.

"

Paolo wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:30 am Spluttering indignantly, she left, ranting about how the heathens should be bomed out of existence in the name of God.

"

I can see her point of view. Bombing seems though such an impersonal way of dealing with heathans though, why not bind em, brand em and castrate em... Did I point out I don't accept that Jesus is God?

Leon

I have not been following this thread, though I have viewed it from time to time. I have very definite opinions on this proposed war, but I will keep them to myself because they change almost daily.

What I would like to do is to listen to a song I have heard lately which, I think, says it all. The title of the song is "Traveling Soldier" by the Dixie Chicks.

I believe that song says more eloquently than I could ever do what I have always believed: if the leader of my country has a problem with the leader of your country, let the two of them get in a ring, or cage, or whatever and duke it out. Why make my son or grandson risk his life trying to kill your son or grandson, when under ordinary circumstances they would be the best of friends?

I also have to ask, why on earth would President Bush refuse a debate with Saddam, as he did today? Come on, George, if you are really the benevolent leader you claim to be, let's try everything we can to avoid war!

I think it's time for a sequel to "The Flying Eunuchs."

You know, I think this whole Gulf war nonsense is about W.'s ego, Blair's desire to be W.'s poodle, and Big Oil Companies wanting to get rich beyond dreams of avarice. But what I think is beside the point.

The French and Germans are not fools, and their leaders were democratically elected (more than can be said for Saddam and W.). The Europeans understand how fragile the political situation in the Middle East currently is. W. and the Cold War Geezers running his White House have this insane notion that we will bomb the crap out of Iraq and VOILA ! a democratic government will appear. None of the people in power in Washington seem concerned that war in Iraq could bring:

+The possibility of riots in Egypt resulting in a militant Islamic government there.

+The possibility that Iran will support puppet political parties in southern Iraq.

+The unimaginable--that Islamic fundamentalists will overthrow the House of Saud in Arabia and proclaim a Taliban-esque government, with the Saudi oil billions to pay for all the terrorism you could ever imagine.

+That Saddam will lob a dirty bomb or some nasty germ into Israel and the Israelis will retaliate, bringing Syria, Lebanon, Libya, and others, into the war on Iraq's side.

+That Turkey will use the war as an excuse to attack the Kurds in northern Iraq.

+That Iran and Libya, in sympathy with Iraq, might cut off Iranian and Libyan oil shipments for a month and throw the European and Japanese economies into chaos.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I think bad times are ahead, to be followed by worse times, after which we'll experience horrible times.

Of course, by then, W. will be back on that rat-hole ranch, living on Daddy's millions, and Tony Blair will have been knighted.

This is all Sandra Day O'Connor's fault. Who would have thought.

Max

"

Charlieje (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:35 pm if the leader of my country has a problem with the leader of your country, let the two of them get in a ring, or cage, or whatever and duke it out.

"

What a brilliant idea. Pay per view on MTV or similar. A move-on from Celebrity Death match... world leader death match.

Get Saddam & George W into a ring, slug it out, no gloves no rules, and the loser abdicates from office. Both of em are in power undemocratically anyway so lets just have a rumble!

Think of the money it would make to pay to the impoverished Iraqi people & all the cash & lives saved from not using massive military resources.

Quick someone call the UN & tell em our plan LOL:D

Hmmmmmm

You guys have the right idea about a one-on-one with W. and Saddam, but I think the plan needs a little work. A no gloves match would be fine, but it would be over SO QUICKLY ! I think the TV networks can really milk this one. Consider:

CBS AND AL-JAZEERA BRING YOU THE MATCH OF THE CENTURY !

Monday: W. vs. Saddam in the kitchen. Who will prevail? W. with his beanless chili, or Saddam and his mom's recipe for falafel? Our celebrity panel of experts will decide! Dom DeLouise as Emcee.

Tuesday: Super Power Spelling Bee. (W. concedes this one after his second word, "intellect.")

Wednesday: Monster Truck Jousting ! John Madden and Jeff Gordon offer play-by-play as the two leaders take each other on in a ground-pounding fight until only one is left moving! Smart money is on W. and his modified HumVee, but there are rumors that Saddam had his favorite Rolls equipped with four-wheel drive and bazookas.

Thursday: World Trivia hosted by Alex Trebek. Las Vegas oddsmakers give even odds on this one. Categories include "Rigged Elections" and "Who's Who on the Enemies List"

Friday: Mid East Triathalon ! Greg Louganis, Michelle Kwan, and Omar Shariff offer color commentary as our intrepid duo compete in this popular event: Swim the Euphrates River, skate around the news media, and finish with a camel-racing free-for all. Can W. amass enough points in Media Skating to overcome Saddam's skill as a camel jock?

Saturday: Blind Date ! Roger Lodge hosts this wacky matchup between world leaders and single chicks that is sure to offer surprises. Dinner, dancing, cocktails, lead up to the big finish; Will the Supreme Court help W. get to third base? Will Saddam's date coldly tell him she's not interested in being "invaded?" Always a popular event !

SUPER SURVIVOR SUNDAY !! The final challenge! The Match of the Century!!

You'll be spellbound as W. and his cabinet and Saddam and his generals are dropped in France and left to their wits ! Can they live on snails? Will they build shelters out of stinky cheese? Which team will be able to start the Renault? Who will be first to smoke an entire pack of Galoise?? No voting off the island here. The loser loses his head ! Gripping commentary by Lance Armstrong, Julia Child, and some guy in a beret.

I think it could be the television event of the year. Winner gets the oil.

Max

"...

Paolo wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:30 am Made me just wanna go take a shit on the church house steps, let me tell you! Ah, the redneck American attitude. Alive and well in the Midwest, thank you very much, Mr. Bush....

"

Make sure that you go take a shit in the shoes of the ragheads that are sitting on the porch as they are praying inside the Mosque for Allah to destroy all of the Americans, Jews and Hindus.

After all, I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to fight some stupid bastard who accused you of being prejudiced, because we all know that just ain't so.

Organized religion???!!!

Now, that IS an OXYMORON!

A-1

He has been the president that we've had--well since--Bill Clinton served in that office. Now, you may disagree with me about this, but the facts support my contention. Eventually, some other person will be president of the United States of America. I hope you see what I mean.

I wrote earlier on this thread in responce to someone saying that they felt the war was just because Hussein needed to be taken out:

"

Leon (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:22 am So do I but it is the way America and my own beloved Britian is going about it that I disagree with you.

"

The following article kinda illustrates what I mean:

http://www.coastalpost.com/03/01/03.htm

The thing about uranium weapons is, they don't only kill the people you are fighting, they cripple the generation that comes afterwards. The generation after are perfectly innocent of what the previous are guilty off. THIS IS AGAINST LIBERTY, and I thought liberty, the liberty to live free from terrorist attack and for the next generation live in such freedom, was the whole point of going to war. Maybe I am just missing the point...

Leon