T van Keel (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:39 am Thanks for the good summary.

Isn't it somehow stupid to castrate someone who has to do heavy physical work? As far as I know castration reduces physical strength in human beings. Even if the donkeys do most of the pulling, the boy needs also good strength.

According to my personal experience, no one should expect castrated men to perform better, physically or mentally, than an intact men. It's just a matter of time before the eunuchs lose their strength and their mental clarity, if they are castrated in adulthood. The "relative lack of sexual interest" is true but it isn't completely eliminated. It's rather common to see former dominant men or heterosexual men turning gay or bottom after castration. Eunuchs might be less agressive but still can fight if needed. One thing Jesus didn't tell, there is a big difference between pre and post puberty castration. Those castrated before puberty don't experience the testosterone withdrawal. That why most eunuchs here are on TRT. I had to quit anti androgen after 8 years non stop to alleviate the bad side effects, the lack of sex drive has never bothered me though.

T van Keel and Paring bring up a couple of interesting points.

While it is true that eunuchs, even those castrated before puberty, are usually not as physically strong as intact males, geldings are not as strong as stallions and oxen are not as strong as bulls. The castrated versions are still considered more useful for physical labor because they are generally easier to manage and are not as interested in the female of the species. Neither “improvement” is an absolute. Castrated animals of all species may still have some interest in females, humans much more so than others. Castrated humans are also not necessarily much easier to handle than intact males, though they are considered to be so from long historical experience. Most eunuchs in history were castrated before puberty, not as adults, so their experience would be quite different from those castrated today as adults.

While it is impossible (fortunately) to run psychological tests on prepubertal eunuchs, we did run the full Big Five Personality Test as part of the second survey that we ran on the Eunuch Archive. We have results for those castrated (as adults) and not using HRT. They can then be compared with a matched set (for age, SES, etc.) of eunuch wannabes. This gives us some idea of the impact of loss of testosterone on a brain that has already been masculinized, as the male human brain is masculinized even before birth. Three of the five scales show interesting differences between the two groups.

The Big Five may be the most used personality test in the world. It has been translated into many languages and given millions of times.

Everywhere the Big Five has been administered there is one significant difference between males and females. Males are significantly higher on the Emotional Stability scale. For the eunuch population of the Eunuch Archive, there was not a significant difference in Emotional Stability from the intact males. They were, however, slightly more emotionally stable, just not quite to the level of statistical significance. In other words, what change we saw was in the direction away from female. Castration does NOT make a eunuch’s personality more female.

The eunuchs in the survey showed significantly higher levels of Conscientiousness. This demonstrates better ability (on average, not necessarily for every single individual) to concentrate on a task. Not multi-tasking, but the ability to take charge and see a job through to its completion. To focus on what needs to be done and exclude distractions.

The other scale on which the eunuchs were superior (and far superior) was that of Agreeableness. This involves the ability to cooperate and to work well in groups.

If you were to try to establish an ideal government bureaucracy, what personality traits would you most like to emphasize?

Eunuchs were the consummate bureaucrats for the great empires of Eurasia over a period of 4,000 years.

These same abilities served them well in other tasks as well. For example, in the feared Assyrian army, there were ranks of eunuch archers. Work in tight formation, as a group, and focus clearly on the task at hand. The Assyrian war chariots were also usually driven by eunuchs. They were not the one or two-person chariots of movie fame, but held three to five. There was a eunuch driver for the steeds and to make the decisions and with intact men with swords and spears on the back (with greater upper arm strength and little need for thought as the eunuch driver moved them into position). Again, the personality traits fit the task.

Would we be better off if those military personnel in Utah who direct our drones in the Middle East were eunuchs? Better able to concentrate without distraction? More emotionally stable? Better able to cooperate in their work-groups? They certainly do not need physical strength for their work.

What other modern tasks might be better performed with eunuch personality?

Wow, that's a level of detail I've never heard nor considered. Thanks! Fascinating....

To go from the sublime to the ridiculous, I wonder if there would be any need to castrate Vogons (Hitchhiker's Guide reference, FWIW)? They're the ultimate bureaucrat species to begin with. Imagine a Vogon eunuch!

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:03 am The personality differences of eunuchs from intact men are

paring (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:39 am at least as important as the st

erility and relative lack of sexual interest. Most eunuchs in history served in administrative functions, not as guardians of someone else’s women. Because of the important functions that they could perform, it was not long before even important families began to castrate a son or two. We know that some important eunuchs in the palace of the Assyrian kings were close members of the royal family. The eunuch head of the treasury under Artaxerxes I was his brother’s son. The head of the palace guard was sometimes a eunuch cousin of the king, castrated as a boy and growing up with the future king.

Yes the personality certainly changes. As I have posted before I am not the person I was before or even the person I thought I would become. I am me, unexpected but happily floating free of gender.

Historically a eunuch was a boy castrated without his consent so that "he" could perform a specific social function. Basically both testicles have been removed. Although mine make no testosterone due to a bacterial infection in both, they are small, numb, infarcted. I have practically no sexual interests however because I do use Androgel on rare occasions in the middle of the night erection that I take advantage of to produce a small orgasm and small amount of ejaculate. In a way I guess some might call me a eunuch, but I consider myself somewhere in the midde. Part eunuch, but not completely since I still have my useless testicles.

I know I was a eunuch as far as testosterone production and all the effects (blood tests confirmed) and second testicle shrunk to the point could only tell it was there through examination (first testicle removed 4 years ago) but I was not contented till it was removed. I know it was mostly psychological but just not right for myself till removed! Been removed just over a year now and great!

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:14 pm T van Keel and Paring bring up a couple of interesting points.

I used to be very muscular and athletic. I started to use anti androgen to curb my sex drive. I knew very well that would induce chemical castration with all the consequences but this did not afraid me. Castration thoughts had simmered in my mind for decades, I was 42 y.o., I thought it'd be time to do it. I was working in office when I started, so it wasn't so bad. But when I switched job to field work, I soon realized that, I was no longer the man I used to be. The lost of my physical strength has affected me the most. Eventually, I had to quit anti androgen and started to use TRT, one of my sister had noticed the changes in my behavior. Sexual thoughts came back and I have to admit that sometime they are really disrupting.

One more point about adult castration, I believe there is also a big difference between non elective and voluntary castration. I believe the latest is more suitable and cause less mental anxiety.

I agree with Jesus, eunuchs have different personality traits than men and they have this advantage not t be bothered with sexual thoughts so they can concentrate on their work. Here I don't want to be mean, I'm totally against forced castration but I think we'd be best served with eunuchs as high rank public workers and politicians including the premiers and présidents, there would be less corruption and money disappearing. I guess mandatory castration would keep lot of crooked politicians away.

I am surgically castrated with testicular prosthesis. I am currently on TRT testosterone injections. Yes or no -- am I a eunuch? Functionally and visually I am the same, but i am sterilized, and basically have a scrotum swollen with silicone implants. I kind of hope I am a eunuch, but understand if I don't really fit the criteria of being considered a "true" eunuch.

eafictionwriter - the responses to this thread have been enlightening. The term is broad, and it seems there simply is no such thing as "true" eunuch. Or perhaps, a "true" eunuch simply encompasses a whole variety of conditions. If you're comfortable identifying as a eunuch, then, well I think you are. Or not. Whichever you prefer.

This is verging on the whole fluid gender concept. Maybe to be considered a eunuch "something" needs to have been done. Surgical removal, with or without replacement hormones, with or without prostheses, chemical castration eliminating testosterone, natural degradation to a castration level of testosterone, whatever, probably all suffice. There seems to be no singular definition, for better or worse.

A funny sketch in German language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpU5y8SsK2o