Yes, don't I know that. Fresh fruits and vegetables are fun and once in a while I actually have some, I try to at least get one portion of either fruit or vegetable per day, of course the experts tell you 5, 5 my ass. I eat lots of eggs, rice, cheese, its a high protein high carb diet. Then again on a limited income you budget for a full stomach.

IEunuch is right on the money, Tea with sugar is cheep and filling and very fating.

River

bobover3 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:14 pm So it's mainly uneducated white people who eat a high carb diet? Uneducated blacks and hispanics show increasing longevity. In fact, hispanics have longer life expectancy than anyone else. What does it all mean?

A few thoughts: From what I understand there is supposed to be a very sharp and drastic divide between Mexicans and Hispanics who eat more "traditional" diets compared with those who eat a 20th century "empty calorie" diets. Also a lot of foods that are in the starch category do have certain necessary nutrients also, potatos being a major one if treated right. Then there are certain Japanese "starches" that tend to be more nutritious. Starches can be the main killer if consitently overdone as compared to high fat diet among diabetic prone individuals. Exercise is key. Dances after a large social meal turn out to be very good idea. When you go to eat out you have to consider how much protein you are getting compared to how much starch. You have to regard starch as a cheap inexpensive filler which it is so that when you buy -say, a burrito, does it have mostly cheap potatos in it or does it have more protein in it. The restaurant is making more money by giving you cheap empty filler material (starches) than it does by giving you more protein. Protein from vegetarian sources (peas, beans, nuts) is generally better for you than from a mammal category (beef) but you still need both unless you are able to afford to eat a lot of fish. A lot of our health food and environmental eating fads which are generally alarmingly high in starch and very bland do a huge great disservice to most people as far as a good diet is concerned. Spices as it turns out are very good for your heart and this may be part of the reason why some Hispanics seem to live long despite otherwise eating a 20th century diet.

BossTamsin (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:17 am Simply put, obesity isn't just a sign of having too much. It's also a sign of having too little, as strange as that sounds.

You have explained yourself very clearly and concisely. I agree and I have been in the same boat. I notice that my wife is much better at stretching the $$ than I am. Right now her big thing is Dollar Tree, a chain which has opened a couple of stores around here. They are not what I assumed. They seem to out Walmart Walmart. She gets some good food deals there on a lot of things including greens, but she does say that you have to be careful and read the label so you don't buy syrup which is packaged exactly like honey. Good shopping does not alleviate the fact that there is more month than money, but it can help make every buck count better.

devi (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:37 pm Protein from vegetarian sources (peas, beans, nuts) is generally better for you than from a mammal category (beef) but you still need both unless you are able to afford to eat a lot of fish.

That is not true. Humans on a vegan diet (no meat, fish, dairy products, or eggs) can get all the protein they need. Vegans might need vitamin B12 supplements.

Decades ago, nutritionists thought that humans needed more protein than they do because of studies done on rats. It turns out that rats need much more protein than humans do.

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:30 pm That is not true. Humans on a vegan diet (no meat, fish, dairy products, or eggs) can get all the protein they need. Vegans might need vitamin B12 supplements.

Decades ago, nutritionists thought that humans needed more protein than they do because of studies done on rats. It turns out that rats need much more protein than humans do.

Agree. Beef is best. Iron. B12. And plant protein is poor quality due to the lack of various Amino Acids.

And even if you combine the beans and rice for "complete protein", the sustenance is in the carbohydrates, not the protein or fat.

And if you slurp your butter without bread, your cholesterol and triglycerides do come down. Yes they do!

Stop the beverage. Drink water. Children may substitute whole milk.

With the substitution of the beverage for water these last decades, I am surprised we do not have an epidemic of

urinary tract stones and renal failure.

Moi

From what I understand about the Atkin's diet was that whereas it was just too overloaded with protein and rather unbalanced nevertheless it did turn out to be very good for diabetics. Hispanics, Blacks Americans, and American Indians are generally more prone to being diabetic than many other populations. I became concerned about my own blood sugar levels and decided to attend diabetic classes. The teacher though turned out to be a little extreme but I did still learn and for a few weeks I was living on only 100 grams of carbohydrates a day. It can be done although any diet taken to its extreme is just not good for you in the long run. Possibly one of our problems in the US is that we're constantly going from one extreme diet to another and wreaking havoc with our body metabolism thus shortening our life span all the more. However when I was on that diet, I did have this friend of mine absolutely insisting that I have some veggie burger rather than the real thing. We even ended up having an argument over it. Somehow she was confused about how fat and starch are metabolized. For a simple weight loss diet you reduce the amount of calories you take in and of course in theory fat contains more than starch so you're more concerned with reducing fat intake. However for a diabetic or someone with that predisposition, fats may just be the thing needed as opposed to carbohydrates. The immediate problem for them is with starch overload and NOT with calorie overload per se. If you read the label on the veggie burger and fake meat packages they generally have much more carbohydrates than regular meat but with no fat. However the immediate problem is with the consumption of carbohydrates and not with fats so the veggie bugers are much worse for you than having real meat. And there is also another problem with veggie burgers since they're made from wheat gluten which I suspect has added to this sudden epidemic of wheat intolerance that suddenly everybody is having. (There may be something to it.) Most people do eat too much meat in their diet but you cannot just completely eliminate it either.

Anyone who thinks that people cannot live without meat should read the Health arguments section at this url:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism

Health arguments

Further information: Vegan nutrition and Raw veganism

Winston Craig, chair of the department of nutrition at Andrews University, writes that vegan diets tend to be higher in dietary fibre, magnesium, folic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E, iron, and phytochemicals, and lower in calories, saturated fat, cholesterol, long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.

According to the 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, a report issued by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, a vegetarian diet is associated with lower levels of obesity and reduced risk of cardiovascular disease. The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada said in 2003 that properly planned vegan diets were nutritionally adequate for all stages of life, including pregnancy and lactation, and provided health benefits in the treatment and prevention of certain diseases. The Swiss Federal Nutrition Commission and the German Society for Nutrition do not recommend a vegan diet, and caution against it for children, the pregnant, and the elderly.

Dean Ornish is one of a number of physicians who recommend a low-fat vegan diet to prevent and reverse certain degenerative diseases.

Physicians John A. McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal D. Barnard, Dean Ornish, Michael Greger, and nutritional biochemist T. Colin Campbell, argue that high animal fat and protein diets, such as the standard American diet, are detrimental to health, and that a low-fat vegan diet can both prevent and reverse degenerative diseases such as coronary artery disease and diabetes. A 2006 study by Barnard found that in people with type 2 diabetes, a low-fat vegan diet reduced weight, total cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol, and did so to a greater extent than the diet prescribed by the American Diabetes Association.

The 12-year Oxford Vegetarian Study of 11,000 subjects recruited between 1980 and 1984 indicated that vegans had lower total- and LDL-cholesterol concentrations than did meat-eaters. Death rates were lower in non-meat eaters than in meat eaters; mortality from ischemic heart disease was positively associated with eating animal fat and with dietary cholesterol levels.

According to the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada, diets that avoid meat tend to have lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants, such as vitamins C and E, and phytochemicals. People avoiding meat are reported to have lower body mass index than those following the average Canadian or American diet. From this follows lower death rates from ischemic heart disease, lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancers.

A 1999 meta-analysis of five studies comparing mortality rates in Western countries found that mortality from ischemic heart disease was 26 percent lower in vegans than in regular meat-eaters. This was compared to 20 percent lower in occasional meat eaters, 34 percent lower in pescetarians (those who ate fish but no other meat), and 34 percent lower in ovo-lacto vegetarians (those who ate no meat, but did consume animal milk and eggs). The lower rate of protection for vegans compared to pescetarians or ovo-lacto vegetarians is believed to be linked to higher levels of homocysteine, caused by insufficient vitamin B12; it is believed that vegans who consume sufficient B12 should show even lower risk of ischemic heart disease than lacto-ovo vegetarians. No significant difference in mortality was found from other causes.

A large 15-year survey that investigated the association between diet and age-related cataract risk in the UK found that vegans had a 40 percent lower risk of developing cataract compared with the biggest meat eaters.

The American Dietetic Association indicated in 2003 that vegetarian diets may be more common among adolescents with eating disorders, but that the evidence suggests that the adoption of a vegetarian diet does not lead to eating disorders, rather that "vegetarian diets may be selected to camouflage an existing eating disorder." Other studies and statements by dietitians and counselors support this conclusion.

Oh well...too late for the cow and 3 unborn chickens that didn't make it today...

Being predisposed by both to diabetes and to osteoporosis, for me it's far better to go ahead and stick a stew bone in with my beans. I put in one good bone with the meat still attached and one cup of dry pinto beans, a small handfull of pre-roasted semi-sweet corn, chili, salt and a little spice along with a liter and a half of water in my pressure cooker approximately once a week. And after I eat and go out of the house I'm not hungry and don't get tempted. I think this is a far better idea than completely avoiding eating anything that is animal.

I only do beans in the crock pot a couple of times a year, in colder weather. For me, it's too tempting and the carb count blasts my blood sugar through the roof. Then I want to chop up a fresh onion with them, and as Jesus can tell you, you know what that leads to...