curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:32 am I think it probably would be easier for them to get diesel vehicles running than to make steam engines. All they would have to do would be to pick vehicles with mechanical fuel pumps and equip them with compressed air starters and air compressors.

This was why I called them stupid in my earlier post. There was metalwork and industry before electricity.

There is a selective disaster going on in REVOLUTION and that's that.

So watching the story will require a greater suspension of belief.

I never wrote this idea into a story, but I did experiment with creating my own role-playing game, a bit like dungeons and dragons, around this concept. (Played with dice, like a big board game.)

I called it "Pulse World". In it, a rogue nation secretly built a string of satellites, and fitted them with EMP devices. Each one was only supposed to last for about a month or so. Unfortunately, once they started to fire small pulses of EMP, that would build up over time, no-one could shut them down. The EMP field got stronger and stronger, and the only thing electrical to work, had to be used far underground.

They had turned the satellites on, because the rogue nation was in a ground war with a more technological country, and wanted to level the playing field. It worked, but when no one could bring the power back on, everything degenerated, for everyone.

I started my game, with the players all assuming characters that were called on to bring the power back. It was 25 years after the "Big Pulse" and technology had become very different. To cope, steam power was almost exclusively used for vehicles. Genetically engineered pigeons were used to send messages, and the whole thing became very "Steam Punk" in its vibe. There were dirigible airships, trains, steam powered tanks, scientists who tried to harness the power of the electromagnetic pulses from the atmosphere. Genetic engineering was taking over from micro-computing. Telepathy was more common than a radio signal.

I thought it would be fun to see if my characters could travel the world trying to figure out why the power went off, and find a way to bring it back. Had the game progressed, they would have eventually met up with a scientist who could harness the electromagnetism (I based him off of Nicola Tesla.) to shoot a powerful beam at the orbiting satellites. The players would have to go on missions to find the targeting co-ordinates for each satellite, and only after the last one had been destroyed, could the electricity finally be restored.

Had the game continued from that point, I would have had the characters deal with the war between the resuming electricity culture, and the now established "Steam Punk" society. A kind of 'Old thinking versus New thinking' story line.

We only played the game for a few months, and then we all got distracted by other things.

When I heard of "Revolution" I thought they would do something similar. Rather than having people live like a barbaric and agrarian society, they could have developed new technology to replace what they had lost. Who's to say what would be better? But they are not doing this in this story. At least it doesn't look like they are, or will.

Revolution looks disappointing to me. It might have potential, but I doubt it. Usually the pilot episode will speak to the potential to come. All I see is people fighting like it is the old west, among the ruins of today's society. I've seen that before, and I've seen it done a lot better than this.

Revolution could have been much more ambitious, but they played it safe. I think it will suffer from that, and I doubt it will go much beyond its first six episodes.

Cainanite (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:22 pm I called it "Pulse World". In it, a rogue nation secretly built a string of satellites, and fitted them with EMP devices. Each one was only supposed to last for about a month or so. Unfortunately, once they started to fire small pulses of EMP, that would build up over time, no-one could shut them down. The EMP field got stronger and stronger, and the only thing electrical to work, had to be used far underground.

What about Faraday cages? Wouldn't they protect electric and electronic devices?

Cainanite (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:22 pm I started my game, with the players all assuming characters that were called on to bring the power back. It was 25 years after the "Big Pulse" and technology had become very different. To cope, steam power was almost exclusively used for vehicles.

What about diesel engines with mechanical fuel pumps? They would work without electricity. You just have to get them started with compressed air or gun cartridge starters. Diesels are much more efficient than steam engines and we already have many of them.

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:42 pm What about Faraday cages? Wouldn't they protect electric and electronic devices?

What about diesel engines with mechanical fuel pumps? They would work without electricity. You just have to get them started with compressed air or gun cartridge starters. Diesels are much more efficient than steam engines and we already have many of them.

Absolutely, Faraday Cages were around, but it was easier and cheaper to run steam. Yes, they existed in the world I designed, but they were not much use, except as an experimentation chamber. Genetics labs, powered by crude batteries, or generators operated inside such cages.

As to diesel engines, in "Pulse World" the electro magnetism was a real problem. It tended to gather around metal objects, and made handling flammable fuels difficult. One spark could be a big issue. It was easier to haul and burn coal, than to take the safety precautions around diesel fuel. Diesel was a LOT safer than gasoline, but not as safe as coal and water.

I know it was a stretch of the imagination, but it was just a game. The point was, in the TV show, 'Revolution', they could have had a lot more fun with alternate technology, but it is a path they chose not to go down. In fact, the path they have chosen for the series seems more than a little uninspired.

I prefer my TV shows with less... blah.

What is really totally unbelievable is that just over a hundred years ago we did not have electricity OMG how did man survive for the last 4.5 million years with out it, how did the NYC subways function with out it? What they did not have law and order before electricity?

The more I think about this show the more I think about not ever wasting another hour of my time on it because electricity might be on its way out and I sure don't want to waist it watching this.

Really what would people like Lincoln or Jefferson do without electricity, oh wait, they did not have electric.

River

Cainanite (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:56 pm As to diesel engines, in "Pulse World" the electro magnetism was a real problem. It tended to gather around metal objects, and made handling flammable fuels difficult. One spark could be a big issue. It was easier to haul and burn coal, than to take the safety precautions around diesel fuel. Diesel was a LOT safer than gasoline, but not as safe as coal and water.

I do not think that would be a problem. A driver would pull into a diesel station, take a grounding cable from the pump and attach it to a grounding point on the vehicle. Then he/she would pump fuel into the vehicle. After pumping the fuel, the driver would put the fuel hose back and then remove the grounding cable.

Coal dust can explode. Steam engines can explode. Steam vehicles that burn coal would need a driver and a fireman. I think that even in "Pulse World" diesel would be safer and

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:42 pm more efficient than steam engines.

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:33 pm What is really totally unbelievable is that just over a hundred years ago we did not have electricity OMG how did man survive for the last 4.5 million years with out it, how did the NYC subways function with out it? What they did not have law and order before electricity?

The more I think about this show the more I think about not ever wasting another hour of my time on it because electricity might be on its way out and I sure don't want to waist it watching this.

Really what would people like Lincoln or Jefferson do without electricity, oh wait, they did not have electric.

River

Try the same soliloquy about antibiotics or the agricultural revolution.

I have a hard time remembering the world without cell phones and internet

are we gonna go to,

I remember when there were only 3 TV stations and my family could only pull in two.

No DEAR Lord, please.

Their selective use of this or that would have to do with making scavenged parts work.

Enjoy the story. Don't be too rough on it. It has only #2 episode coming up.

And most of you will now watch it to find fault. Such watching still buys commercial time.

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:53 pm I do not think that would be a problem. A driver would pull into a diesel station, take a grounding cable from the pump and attach it to a grounding point on the vehicle. Then he/she would pump fuel into the vehicle. After pumping the fuel, the driver would put the fuel hose back and then remove the grounding cable.

Coal dust can explode. Steam engines can explode. Steam vehicles that burn coal would need a driver and a fireman. I think that even in "Pulse World" diesel would be safer and

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:42 pm more efficient than steam engines.

You could be right. I admit. I thought making the world more about steam and coal, was cooler than diesel. As I said, diesel did exist in my game world, It just wasn't as easy to come by as steam and coal. Also, no amount of running a diesel engine would produce electricity for use. The EMP was disruptive to it. You could use it for propulsion, but not to power a computer.

If you did use it to power a computer, the generator, computer, and user all had to be inside a Faraday cage, and you couldn't communicate over the internet, or radio because the pulse disrupted that. You were limited to what you could carry into the cage, and not what you could download from a distant source.

Anyhow, I will give you diesel is better. I didn't use it as often as steam and coal, simply because I thought steam and coal was more cool. Regardless of steam or diesel, the point is not what I did with a role playing game from over ten years ago. The point is the TV show Revolution is not doing ANYTHING. It is just lazy lazy writing. They could at least offer us an explanation. I might watch again if they tried it.

moi621 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:57 pm Try the same soliloquy about antibiotics or the agricultural revolution.

I have a hard time remembering the world without cell phones and internet

are we gonna go to,

I remember when there were only 3 TV stations and my family could only pull in two.

No DEAR Lord, please.

Moi, that is because you lived in Holly-wood-land, out in the SFV we got the three networks, plus 4 more channels. All came in clear but then again the STUDIOS were just down the street.

River

By Air Wave antenna we got

Channel 2 CBS

Channel 4 NBC

Channel 5 KTLA, the revolutionary station that first put a broadcast camera in a helicopter.

Channel 7 ABC

Channel 9 some independent

Channel 11 independent, not Fox entertainment I think

Channel 13 independent

And if you tried real hard with a crappy UHF antenna, you might receive Channel 28 in salt and pepper.

I said, I hoped we wouldn't do this.

With Uncles and Grandparents living in "the valley" we did have to frequent it. Ugh.

Places like Sherman Oaks, Encino, and Van Nuys.

I think of status symbol oriented people, like my uncle and his dichondra lawn.

He couldn't hardly walk a step without stooping over to pick out a "weed".

Intellect definitely declined as one went over the Chuanga pass into the valley.

BTW Universal Studios was off Barham Blvd, Hollywood Hills. Not the valley.

Remember: If you like Oklahoma, you will luv the San Fernando Valley. It just costs more.