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Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:52 am
by SplitDik (imported)
Dave (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:12 pm There are no safeties that I remember on single and double acting revolvers. We're talking revolvers and not semi-automatic pistols with all sorts of other actions.

Cocking the hammer produces a heavier blow to the bullet because the hammer must be cocked farther away form the bullet to be held in place. Then the trigger released the holding mechanism. When you pulls the hammer back without latching it, the distance is shorter and the hammer drops and hits the bullet with less force. The real danger is the firing pin.

Modern pistols have a transfer pin that prevents the hammer from accidentally firing the gun due to rough handling.

Here's the important part -- cowboys with Colt's 45, used to leave the hammer rest on an empty chamber (load five and not six shots) so that handling he gun wouldn't accidentally fire it. Ammunition wasn't as uniform and sometimes rather light jarring would set off the firing cap on the back of the bullet. If the cowboy didn't shoot his foot, then his horse might get it. These revolvers were not made to be tucked in trousers. They're big, heavy guns more likely to drag your pants to the floor.

There is a reason that a Colt 45 (peacemaker) and other guns with 357 calibers and higher have only six bullets in the cylinder. The metals involved don't have the strength to hold together when bored for a seven or eight shooter.

I had a Ruger Single Six which fired nine 22 shorts or six 22 longs. Of course I had to manually replace the cylinders to change caliber because the bullets were physically different

I once had a Dan Wesson 357 that was dual chambered in one cylinder for 357's or 38's.

I agree, many revolvers and many replicas of other old-fashioned guns obviously don't have safeties. But like you say, who loads a revolver cylinder fully? That's stupid. Furthermore, with most revolvers you can tell at a glance whether it is loaded as you can usually see a bit of the bullet, and if you really want to make sure you can quickly check. Also, like you said modern revolvers prevent the hammer alone from causing a fire, and some double-action actually need single action on first pull.

But even in these cases at least four things have to go wrong at the same time to hurt someone: fully loaded, full hammer action, full trigger action, and pointed in an unsafe direction. Still seems like a lot of coincidence and stupidity rolled into one.

Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:14 pm
by gunnutz (imported)
Dave (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:12 pm There are no safeties that I remember on single and double acting revolvers. We're talking revolvers and not semi-automatic pistols with all sorts of other actions.

Cocking the hammer produces a heavier blow to the bullet because the hammer must be cocked farther away form the bullet to be held in place. Then the trigger released the holding mechanism. When you pulls the hammer back without latching it, the distance is shorter and the hammer drops and hits the bullet with less force. The real danger is the firing pin.

Modern pistols have a transfer pin that prevents the hammer from accidentally firing the gun due to rough handling.

Here's the important part -- cowboys with Colt's 45, used to leave the hammer rest on an empty chamber (load five and not six shots) so that handling he gun wouldn't accidentally fire it. Ammunition wasn't as uniform and sometimes rather light jarring would set off the firing cap on the back of the bullet. If the cowboy didn't shoot his foot, then his horse might get it. These revolvers were not made to be tucked in trousers. They're big, heavy guns more likely to drag your pants to the floor.

There is a reason that a Colt 45 (peacemaker) and other guns with 357 calibers and higher have only six bullets in the cylinder. The metals involved don't have the strength to hold together when bored for a seven or eight shooter.

I had a Ruger Single Six which fired nine 22 shorts or six 22 longs. Of course I had to manually replace the cylinders to change caliber because the bullets were physically different

I once had a Dan Wesson 357 that was dual chambered in one cylinder for 357's or 38's.

The limit on capacity was not the steel, as early as 1860 revolvers were made with as many as 30 (thirty) chambers, it was primarily weight and convenience, several revolvers with 8-10 round capacity were used in the old west, they never gained the fame of the colt but they worked just fine.

Remember that they were using black powder so a 45 colt has a maximum chamber pressure of 14,000 PSI, versus a modern 45 ACP maximum chamber pressure of 21,000 PSI, the metallurgical advances are not that much of a game changer for capacity.

Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:52 am
by curious_guy (imported)
A-1 (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:56 am Re: 22 cal weapons.

Having had more than a little experience with the results of 22 cal slugs encountering the human body, I can testify that they can be just as lethal if not more so than larger cal weapon projectiles with greater muzzle velocities.

In one episode of Criminal Minds, several people were killed by being shot in the back of the head with a .22 caliber pistol. (I think that the back of the skull is the strongest part of the skull.) Would a .22 caliber pistol round always have enough energy to penetrate the skull of an adult man?

Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:08 am
by gunnutz (imported)
curious_guy (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:52 am In one episode of Criminal Minds, several people were killed by being shot in the back of the head with a .22 caliber pistol. (I think that the back of the skull is the strongest part of the skull.) Would a .22 caliber pistol round always have enough energy to penetrate the skull of an adult man?

Absolutely. 22 lr rates at betwen 1,030 and 1,800 FPS with a 30-61 grain bullet for 104-204 foot pounds of muzzle energy, keep in mind that's everything from subsonic rounds to velocitors, but all of them should be able to penetrate the skull at close range.

Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:15 am
by janekane (imported)
Out of (silly?) curiosity, I did a little Internet search on airguns.

Yikes! There seems to be one that uses .177 BBs that is rated for a muzzle velocity of over 1000 feet per second.

A mere $500 or so, and why do I think that it could do real damage?

It is not on my shopping list and it is not on my want list.

Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:12 am
by _g (imported)
curious_guy (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:52 am In one episode of Criminal Minds, several people were killed by being shot in the back of the head with a .22 caliber pistol. (I think that the back of the skull is the strongest part of the skull.) Would a .22 caliber pistol round always have enough energy to penetrate the skull of an adult man?

The mobile butcher used 22 cal short to kill, and CO2 powered BB guns have been known to kill. The short answer is yes.

You can't outlaw stupidly and with out any marksmanship curses, clubs(archery, fencing, etc), or any kind of weapons even hands used as kids playing bang bang, allowed in any public schools, ignorance of weapons has, and is killing more children and adults.

_g

Re: Famous Last Words...another groin shot

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:48 am
by curious_guy (imported)
gunnutz (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:08 am Absolutely. 22 lr rates at betwen 1,030 and 1,800 FPS with a 30-61 grain bullet for 104-204 foot pounds of muzzle energy, keep in mind that's everything from subsonic rounds to velocitors, but all of them should be able to penetrate the skull at close range.

I just watched an episode of 60 Minutes shown on 3/17/2013 in which they said that a mobster named John Veasey was shot in the back of the head three times. He was not seriously injured.

http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_p ... hn-veasey/

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/john- ... hilly-mob/