Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 4:16 pm It sounds as if your situation is fixed, don't break it

Have you had your T levels tested since you've been on the Androgel?

The concern on hypogonadism2 group on Yahoo, from the folks that are using HCG, is that they worry that the leydic cells in the testicles may do more than just create testosterone. They worry that they are losing some intangibles by letting the testes atrophy. Personally I don't worry too much about it. My Endo who seems to be up on these things said she'd only use HCG if I was worried about maintaining fertility. which I'm not.

Yeah, I had it measured at the 6 week mark when I was

guy26 (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 3:09 am taking testosterone twice a week.

I'm using it every three days, which is just a little more often--3x times every 10 days versus 3x times every 9 days. I haven't gotten my results back, but I also noticed that my endocrinologist only wanted my free testosterone checked. I'm a little surprised. It might have been a mistake. The phlebotomist at my local doctor's practice drew the blood and sent it into the lab. She was a little surprised and had to call my insurance's lab to get a code only to run the free testosterone test. I guess total and free testosterone are checked together.

As far as things being fixed and not breaking it… I totally agree with that! That's why I'm leaning on just staying on a schedule of every three days. Unless there is a physiological reason, why mess with something that works? But I'll abide by whatever my endocrinologist thinks is right. My therapist thinks that it is psychologically reasonable to leave it where it is, so hopefully it is okay to leave physiologically on the same schedule. I'll let you know how my visit goes in a couple of weeks.

It's interesting that your endocrinologist is onl

Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 4:16 pm y concerned about using HCG in the cas

e that you were worried about maintaining fertility. I don't really care about that. I'd be surprised if I was fertile to start with! I primarily just want to feel normal, which I seem to have achieved.

guy26 (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 11:42 am The few times I tried increasing the dosage of androgel slightly beyond where I'm at, it left me feeling lost and unsure of how to respond to other people. That level felt natural, but far beyond anything that I previously experienced in life. Maybe that's what it feels like to be a guy with a higher level of testosterone? I really don't know.

Here's the thing. Being a horny, energetic, thrill-seeking guy is somewhat uncomfortable. But it is uncomfortable in a different, more tolerable way than when I was obsessed with castration.

I think the best way to explain it is with an analogy -- when someone gets on stage they always get an adrenaline rush but some people experience it as stage fright (i.e. uncomfortable) and others find it exhilarating.

It is the same with taking extra testosterone -- you are still horny, in fact even hornier, but instead of it being an unpleasant feeling it becomes pleasant. At some level it is the same feeling, but your acceptance of it is different.

I think that behavioral changes can also create some of the same effects -- imagine someone who had stage fright actively working to conquer it and then eventually one day realizing the positive thrill.

I think that the testosterone itself will create some changes, but you have to be careful not to let it just create more sexual frustrations and other bottled up energy -- if you go for more testosterone in your system, I highly recommend that you consciously seek behaviors that provide a natural outlet. Otherwise you will almost certainly start getting anger management issues, sexual frustration, and a generally anxious feeling. When you have high testosterone you NEED adrenaline and sexual outlets, otherwise you're likely to crack.

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 8:30 pm I think that the testosterone itself will create some changes, but you have to be careful not to let it just create more sexual frustrations and other bottled up energy -- if you go for more testosterone in your system, I highly recommend that you consciously seek behaviors that provide a natural outlet. Otherwise you will almost certainly start getting anger management issues, sexual frustration, and a generally anxious feeling. When you have high testosterone you NEED adrenaline and sexual outlets, otherwise you're likely to crack.

So far I haven't noticed any

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 8:30 pm anger management issues, sexual frustration,

or anxiety because of increasing my testosterone level.

The times I have had conflict at work in recent weeks, I felt more laid back about it. I didn't take things as personally and I didn't seem to care as much. I haven't been all that concerned about testosterone increasing my likelihood to get angry or the intensity of that anger. Anger doesn't seem to be a part of my personality and it's rare that I get angry. I have always been that way. I dislike conflict, but I don't necessarily run away from conflict either. I like to debate, but I don't like to get emotional about it.

I have not been sexually frustrated so far. I have noticed that I feel more inclined to top. I'm not for sure why. Maybe it has something to do with the testosterone? I really don't know. My other half whom I've been with for 11 years has a much lower sex drive than mine. I haven't let that be a source of frustration for me in the past or more recently. I have no qualms about watching porn and attending to myself if he isn't in the mood.

As far as anxiety, I have noticed less anxiety in general. And when anxiety has occurred it doesn't seem to bother me as much. In some ways I have felt that my response to emotions in general and including anxiety has been tempered because of the testosterone.

As far as random desires or changes in behavior, I have recently wanted to ride a dirt bike on some of the local trails. Our area has some nice trails designed for that. I don't know anyone that has a dirt bike, so I don't see that happening anytime soon. LoL. And I don't know if this desire is because of the testosterone or just something that has popped up. As a kid, we use to ride three wheelers all the time on the farm. So it isn't totally out of character.

I have only been taking exogenous testosterone for 3 months, so I'll keep a watchful eye on things. If I get a desire to watch football, I'll definitely know that something has changed. LoL. I have never understood the desire to watch big team sports. I can understand wanting to play in them, but not watch them.

I had all of these with my natural testosterone;

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 8:30 pm anger management issues, sexual frustration, and a

nxiety

but now I take siterone and it definitely helps.

So far I haven't noticed any

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Wed May 09, 2012 6:10 am ]
anger management issues, sexual frustration,

or anxiety because of increasing my testosterone level.

The times I have had conflict at work in recent weeks, I felt more laid back about it. I didn't take things as personally and I didn't seem to care as much. I haven't been all that concerned about testosterone increasing my likelihood to get angry or the intensity of that anger. Anger doesn't seem to be a part of my personality and it's rare that I get angry. I have always been that way. I dislike conflict, but I don't necessarily run away from conflict either. I like to debate, but I don't like to get emotional about it.

I have not been sexually frustrated so far. I have noticed that I feel more inclined to top. I'm not for sure why. Maybe it has something to do with the testosterone? I really don't know. My other half whom I've been with for 11 years has a much lower sex drive than mine. I haven't let that be a source of frustration for me in the past or more recently. I have no qualms about watching porn and attending to myself if he isn't in the mood.

As far as anxiety, I have noticed less anxiety in general. And when anxiety has occurred it doesn't seem to bother me as much. In some ways I have felt that my response to emotions in general and including anxiety has been tempered because of the testosterone.

As far as random desires or changes in behavior, I have recently wanted to ride a dirt bike on some of the local trails. Our area has some nice trails designed for that. I don't know anyone that has a dirt bike, so I don't see that happening anytime soon. LoL. And I don't know if this desire is because of the testosterone or just something that has popped up. As a kid, we use to ride three wheelers all the time on the farm. So it isn't totally out of character.

I have only been taking exogenous testosterone for 3 months, so I'll keep a watchful eye on things. If I get a desire to watch football, I'll definitely know that something has changed. LoL. I have never understood the desire to watch big team sports. I can
[/quote]
understand wanting to play in them, but not watch them.

A lot of people get confused about this, but let me explain. When you have testosterone, the aggression, libido, and energy are very different. I personally like it a lot better, and like you said it can feel more "laid back". But don't be complacent -- here's how to look at it.

When a low testosterone person or a woman talks about being angry, they really mean a feeling of "irritation" or being "peeved". You won't feel this with high testosterone; however what you will feel is a very primal urge to physically dominate. It will feel good to punch someone or to shout and rage at a loved one just for the "fun of it". A young man wants to fight. Not because they are irritable or actually mad for any reason, but they just like the idea of purely physical altercation. Where you will feel this "anger management issue" is when you are outright confronted or challenged (for example your anger at your children misbehaving, or road rage type stuff).

When a low testosterone has sexual frustration it is sort of an agitation feeling, some sort of discomfort in the loins and stomach (at least that's where I feel it). When you have high testosterone, instead the sexual buildup feels GOOD. You lust after women, just walking around can give you an erection, etc. But that will start to get to be too much pressure.

When a low testosterone person has anxiety, it is a nervousness, almost a fear. Whereas a high testosterone person will feel it as positive energy, yet it will also become a bit manic, lead to a certain type of insomnia, etc.

So, yes you will feel good. It will feel better than the low testosterone versions of the feelings. But trust me, if you get into high testosterone range you will feel like a dominant guy, and that means physically dominant (and therefore anger when challenged), horny (meaning you feel constantly sexual until it drives you crazy), and energetic (until you realize that you're not truly relaxing).

I disagree. I think it is a very individual thing. For myself, when I started on injections I did some experimenting and no matter how high a load I injected, it didn't make me an aggressive/angry dominating person. I think there has to be a pre-disposition to those things, and they can be channeled as you have explained. Just as everything else, from T to E to Depo your mileage may vary.

Not all men are 'macho' by nature. For instance I don't think an effeminate man, gay or straight, is indicative that they are of a lower testosterone level. Also there have been plenty of guys on here who were Low T and once they got up to normal levels they were LESS aggressive/angry. They leveled out and were much easier to live with...

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Thu May 10, 2012 8:42 pm A lot of people get confused about this, but let me explain. When you have testosterone, the aggression, libido, and energy are very different. I personally like it a lot better, and like you said it can feel more "laid back". But don't be complacent -- here's how to look at it.

When a low testosterone person or a woman talks about being angry, they really mean a feeling of "irritation" or being "peeved". You won't feel this with high testosterone; however what you will feel is a very primal urge to physically dominate. It will feel good to punch someone or to shout and rage at a loved one just for the "fun of it". A young man wants to fight. Not because they are irritable or actually mad for any reason, but they just like the idea of purely physical altercation. Where you will feel this "anger management issue" is when you are outright confronted or challenged (for example your anger at your children misbehaving, or road rage type stuff).

When a low testosterone has sexual frustration it is sort of an agitation feeling, some sort of discomfort in the loins and stomach (at least that's where I feel it). When you have high testosterone, instead the sexual buildup feels GOOD. You lust after women, just walking around can give you an erection, etc. But that will start to get to be too much pressure.

When a low testosterone person has anxiety, it is a nervousness, almost a fear. Whereas a high testosterone person will feel it as positive energy, yet it will also become a bit manic, lead to a certain type of insomnia, etc.

So, yes you will feel good. It will feel better than the low testosterone versions of the feelings. But trust me, if you get into high testosterone range you will feel like a dominant guy, and that means physically dominant (and therefore anger when challenged), horny (meaning you feel constantly sexual until it drives you crazy), and energetic (until you realize that you're not truly relaxing).

I find your experience with testosterone quite interesting. I'm not inclined to push my testosterone levels much if any beyond taking the Androgel every 3 days. It feels that I have found just the right amount. I can feel like a guy, but it also doesn't drastically change who I am.

As Wolf-Pup pointed out, hormones may be one of the greatest cases of YMMV-your mileage may vary. I have no idea if I would be capable of feeling like an alpha male as you describe. I have not felt things as you describe, so I have my doubts. It is hard to imagine that I would ever enjoy challenging other people just for the hell of it. But who knows. There seems to be a huge difference between taking the Androgel every 2 days versus every 3 days. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like going beyond that. I don't want to find out. To be honest, the prospect of taking more scares me. Testosterone has the power to change who I am.

It's interesting that you describe having higher testosterone as having more energy and almost feeling a bit manic. Initially I had some reservations that higher testosterone levels might affect my bipolar and cause me to be manic. Luckily that hasn't been the case. To my greatest surprise, I haven't had *any* mood problems since I started using the Androgel. In terms of my mood, I haven't felt this way since before puberty and the onset of bipolar symptoms. I have no idea why Androgel is affecting me this way. I am definitely not complaining!

I have experienced sexual frustration, but only as a part of experiencing hypersexuality. It is a load of fun for about a week. After that, it is miserable, crazy, irritating, frustrating, and I find it more and more difficult to control. So while I have noticed a moderate uptick in the frequency of feeling sexual, it doesn't seem uncomfortable, insane, or out of control. In some ways I feel that the testosterone has increased the frequency of feeling sexual, but it has decreased the intensity of it.

guy26 (imported) wrote: Sat May 12, 2012 6:54 am I find your experience with testosterone quite interesting. I'm not inclined to push my testosterone levels much if any beyond taking the Androgel every 3 days. It feels that I have found just the right amount. I can feel like a guy, but it also doesn't drastically change who I am.

As Wolf-Pup pointed out, hormones may be one of the greatest cases of YMMV-your mileage may vary. I have no idea if I would be capable of feeling like an alpha male as you describe. I have not felt things as you describe, so I have my doubts. It is hard to imagine that I would ever enjoy challenging other people just for the hell of it. But who knows. There seems to be a huge difference between taking the Androgel every 2 days versus every 3 days. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like going beyond that. I don't want to find out. To be honest, the prospect of taking more scares me. Testosterone has the power to change who I am.

It's interesting that you describe having higher testosterone as having more energy and almost feeling a bit manic. Initially I had some reservations that higher testosterone levels might affect my bipolar and cause me to be manic. Luckily that hasn't been the case. To my greatest surprise, I haven't had *any* mood problems since I started using the Androgel. In terms of my mood, I haven't felt this way since before puberty and the onset of bipolar symptoms. I have no idea why Androgel is affecting me this way. I am definitely not complaining!

I have experienced sexual frustration, but only as a part of experiencing hypersexuality. It is a load of fun for about a week. After that, it is miserable, crazy, irritating, frustrating, and I find it more and more difficult to control. So while I have noticed a moderate uptick in the frequency of feeling sexual, it doesn't seem uncomfortable, insane, or out of control. In some ways I feel that the testosterone has increased the frequency of feeling sexual, but it has decreased the intensity of it.

I still think you're not quite getting the meaning of my words. Testosterone will make all these feelings (energy, aggression, sexuality) more "comfortable". It will feel more natural, more relaxed, less disquieting, etc. However, I would still say that it is an increase in energy, an increase in aggression, and increase in sexuality. It may seem contradictory to say that you have more energy AND feel more relaxed, or that you feel more aggressive AND less prone to get irritated, or that you feel more sexual AND feel less frustration. But in my experience that is what happens for me, and I think you're describing the same thing -- just using different words.

But the behavioral changes I'm talking about really manifest themselves only when the situation warrants. So I'm just warning you that you may surprise yourself to fine that you act DIFFERENT than you have previously in certain situations. It takes a physical confrontation, or a physical temptation, to really bring out the testosterone-based "male animal" responses. So just be ready.

On the other hand, I do agree that YMMV and don't mean to invalidate any differences in our experiences. Just trying to explain that I was personally surprised by changes in behavior, and warn others in case it happens to them.