Scientific Racism (Yet Again!)

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

I do wish there was less closing of threads! I understand why you shut down some threads, especially when "conversations" degenerate into stupid name calling and wasted arguments on some really silly and trivial B.S. Yet some threads do have real value, and just need to have certain wasteful posts deleted.

This thread for example, I am seriously interested in WHAT science would make such assertions that darker coloration has a direct corolation with aggression? In the human species, I can think of numerous examples of darker coloration NOT being hand in hand with aggression, and fairer coloration races clearly do have their aggressive people, just look at Ireland.

[moi621 (imported)]

I do wish there was less closing of threads! I understand why you shut down some threads, especially when "conversations" degenerate into stupid name calling and wasted arguments on some really silly and trivial B.S. Yet some threads do have real value, and just need to have certain wasteful posts deleted.

This thread for example, I am seriously interested in WHAT science would make such assertions that darker coloration has a direct corolation with aggression? In the human species, I can think of numerous examples of darker coloration NOT being hand in hand with aggression, and fairer coloration races clearly do have their aggressive people, just look at Ireland.

That might be translated as darker color, higher aggression.

WE should be particularly sensitive to how we state items in this thread to keep it real.

I would ask Kristoff to chime in on the presumed functions of the adrenergic parts of neuro chemistry and behavior.

Consider how massive a chart of biochemical pathways is. The closeness by of melanin and some neuro transmitters (DOPA amine, norepinepherine) also involves the receptors that respond to them and the enzymes that regulate them. It is just too close, like cousins, to believe their is not some "carry over".

Again, I would not apply this 'science' to an individual's rights in society.

I would apply the human genome and its' variations to help an individual choose a genomically recommended medical therapy from a choice of those in current practice for the individuals ailment.

The "Liberalism" we witness in previous uploads has hampered that research for decades.

Moi

Believe My Science or Your Feelings?

How about when it is Your Science and My Feelings.

No artificial gasoline because Hitler did it

<sigh>

[transward (imported)]

Ok, explain the high number of red haired Presidents.

Forbidden thinking

Moi

As a fan of Occam's Razor, I suspect the simplest explanation is most likely correct. Go back to the settling of America by the pilgrims and puritans. They were Protestant Calvinists, mostly followers of the Scottish Church. A hundred years later their descendants were the aristocracy that became the governing class of the new nation. Basically Celtic people are overrepresented among those who contributed most to the governing class, and Celts are famous for being red haired and green eyed. Two hundred years and change later, they are still prominent among those running for president.

QED

Transward

[devi (imported)]

Uh. We have several things going on here. The "red haired gene" cuts through all races and peoples. It's simply more apparently visible when connected with the blonde haired gene than it is with the black hair of Africa, Asia and America (n Indian). The blonde hair gene simply allows the redness of the hair to be more transparent is all. But despite this there are still many from around the world with red hair due to not having enough of the black color in their hair. Vilitigo, generalized middle aged vilitigo, and various albino genes can all produce this. But it also happens on its own too. There are actually various shades of "straight black" hair in which some of the more brunette like strands will not sufficiently cover the redness of the hair. I myself had jet black as a child and then later very black hair with red strands of hair that would show in the sunlight. It was the prettiest hair by all accounts and women would routinely ask me how I had my hair done. (I did nothing and now it's going white.) In many places red hair is frowned upon because people would think these "red heads" were simply seeking attention. Japan used to require school girls to dye their hair black if their hair came out with any redness. I'm not sure how much that goes on yet over there or how much of that goes on in their neighboring countries.

As far as melatonin being a causal factor for aggression and knowing a lot of world history, I'd say you'd get more positive results by studying the exact shape of the liver.

[Riverwind (imported)]

I don't like closing thread either, but sometimes I need to look at the larger picture. I would like this one to stay open, however it must stay on topic.

River

[Riverwind (imported)]

Moi, you have poo-pooed Hitler however one of the things he preached and bread was the white arain blond blue eyed children who were pure in his eyes. This group of people Hitler and his henchmen went on to exterminate those that had mental problems, Gipsy's, blacks, and Jews. So I do think this is something that must be considered in this thread.

River

[moi621 (imported)]

LOL

I poo-poo the idea that "Hitler did it" is sufficient to diss anything.

Eisenhower (German) and Teddy Roosevelt (Dutch) are among the red headed presidents.

Besides Gerald Ford, who were the blondes?

Meanwhile, I have never "quantified" aggression. YOU did. (or y'all did!)

I said associated with neurochemisty involved with . . . . <sigh>

I see no reason preventing more melanin being associated with more moderated aggression, get it?

Moi

[transward (imported)]

The article below was made available on-line two days ago. The abstract is readily available, but the actual article (in uncorrected page proof form) costs $32.00. The final published version should be out in June or July. I expect the article to generate far more heat than light in the popular press over the next few months. Just from the abstract I can see potential holes in their logic, but you can

’t say you weren’t warned….

Do pigmentation and the melanocortin system modulate aggression and sexuality in humans as they do in other animals?

J. Philippe Rushtona, & Donald I. Templerb,

a Department of Psychology, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada N6A 5C2

b California School of Professional Psychology, Alliant International University, Fresno, CA 93704, United States

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.paid.2012.02.015

Personality and Individual Differences (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/01918869), vol 52 (2012): in press.

Available online 15 March 2012

Abstract:

Pigmentation of the hair, skin, cuticle, feather and eye is one of the most salient and variable attributes of vertebrates. In many species, melanin-based coloration is found to be pleiotropically linked to behavior. We review animal studies that have found darker pigmented individuals average higher amounts of aggression and sexual activity than lighter pigmented individuals. We hypothesize that similar relationships between pigmentation, aggression, and sexuality occur in humans. We first review the literature on non-human animals and then review some of the correlates of melanin in people, including aggression and sexual activity. Both within human populations (e.g., siblings), and between populations (e.g., races, nations, states), studies find that darker pigmented people average higher levels of aggression and sexual activity (and also lower IQ)). We conceptualize skin color as a multigenerational adaptation to differences in climate over the last 70,000 years as a result of

“cold winters theory” and the “Out-of-Africa”

model of human origins. We propose life history theory to explain the covariation found between human (and non-human) pigmentation and variables such as birth rate, infant mortality, longevity, rate of HIV/AIDS, and violent crime.

Highlights:

► In 40 species of wild vertebrates, darker pigmented individuals are more aggressive and sexually active. ► Cross fostering studies and pharmacological dose manipulations establish the role of the melatonin system. ► We review the human literature within and between populations and find similar relationships with pigmentation. ► Darker individuals average higher levels of crime, sexual activity including HIV/AIDS, and lower IQ.

Keywords: Pigmentation; Skin color; Aggression; Sexual activity; HIV/AIDS; Crime; IQ; Life history theory

This brings up a number of points. I spent over an hour googling melanin, skin color, aggression, violence, sexuality and various combination thereof. Most of the valid research dealt with fish and birds during mating rituals where males compete for females, and the researchers were very circumspect in their conclusions. ("Social Environment during Molt and the Expression of Melanin-Based Plumage Pigmentation in Male House Sparrows") All the research that sounded like what the abstract was quoting was from psuedo-scientific racist sites, (http://www.vdare.com/articles/winters-a ... m-north-to). I am also bothered by the gratuitous parenthetical mention of a link between melanin and IQ ("...

find that darker pigmented people average higher levels of aggression and sexual activity (and also lower IQ

"), a link that is far from settled. The whole abstract seems to deliberatly court the racists that got so worked up over the book "The Bell Curve" They seem to have thrown in a grab bag of buzz words designed to grab racists, words that have little to do with melanin and much to do with racism.

Approaching the central question from a historians perspective, I would assume that a genetic basis for violence and aggression would be expressed not only by individuals but also by the racial groups containing those individuals. Looking for the most violent and aggressive cultures, I find a negative correlation with apparent skin color. Much of history involves lighter skinned barbarians from the North invading and decimating darker skinned civilizations in the South. Start with the lighter skinned Aryans, coming from the shores of the Caspian sweeping down and conquoring the dark skinned Dravidians of India, who were in turn devistated by the lighter skinned Arabs coming later. The Vikings were lighter skinned than the civilizations of Europe on whom they preyed for centuries. The barbarians that sacked Rome were lighter skinned than the Romans, the Romans than the Persians and Egyptians they overthrew. Most of the world is darker skinned than the Europeans who colonized it in the last 500 years.

In short I think this paper is more interested in provoking than informing.

Transward

[Elizabeth (imported)]

Ok, explain the high number of red haired Presidents.

Forbidden thinking

Moi

Their dads had a thing for redheads.

Elizabeth

[Riverwind (imported)]

I know I have always love redheads.

River