Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:47 pm He was less qualified in that he tried to do CPR on the bed. It must be done on a hard surface. All doctors can prescribe, but ethical ones don't prescribe medications outside of their field of specialty. My primary doctor for instance leaves it to my Endocrinologist to prescribe my Testosterone. My pain specialist prescribed me what I need to function, and not that I'm on maintenance mode lets my Primary do it. My pain doctor wouldn't give me anti-cholesterol medications, nor would my Endo give me migraine meds.

A cardiologist is simply NOT an anesthesiologist and has no business using those medications, let alone using them in a venue that it is never supposed to be used in.

He is the fall-guy in the sick story....but the guilt goes from Michael, to his parents, and anyone who enabled his destructive behaviors.

Look, in a real hospital ANYBODY who goes into cardiac arrest and has a "code blue" is resuscitated in their bed. They are NOT drug onto the floor for CPR and de-fibrillation. It is done in their hospital bed. o.K.?

Sometimes, if there IS time, there may be a board (plywood or other) put under them but rarely is that done.

Generally, in a large teaching hospital patient treatment is done as a team. Each specialist has their job and they get together and discuss the team's cases.

At least he had a real doctor, not some strung-out dealer like John Belushi did. M.J. was filthy rich, one road tour was a multi-million dollar grossing world event.

The technique is called 'conscious sedation' and any M.D. can do it, however, the problem is when the 'patient' (or in this case, junkie) has built up a tolerance to medications and it takes higher and higher doses to accomplish the purpose. When the dose gets high enough, it shuts down the part of the brain that controls breathing. If you do that you must take over the breathing mechanically.

Obviously, there was no respirator present. Another thing, if a doctor has ever worked in an E.R. or done emergency call at a hospital, they have probably intubated a patient at one time or another. Usually, if a patient ends up on a respirator, the respiratory therapist is the one who accomplished the intubation, although many ICU nurses are also good at it, and if the ER is a busy ER the ER nurses are good at it, too, not to mention the ER doctors. It is not that hard to learn, it is a matter of acquiring skills and practicing them.

This doctor, if he were indeed ethical, would have tried to force M.J. into re-hab a long, long time ago. But even then, M.J. may have still died. Look what happened to Jerry Garcia.

The bottom line is that addiction is a FATAL disease, eventually, one way or another.

...and yes, the doctor got what was coming to him. He is the one who should have exerted an attempt at some kind of control. It was involuntary manslaughter at best. Don't worry, this guy will never practice again, unless it is behind prison walls suturing up inmates who have minor lacerations. The bad stuff they sent out...

Dr. Murray told on himself when questioned. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut. His own statements built the case against him.

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A-1 (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:37 pm The bottom line is that addiction is a FATAL disease, eventually, one way or another.

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While I take exception to the view that addiction is a fatal disease, I do so only because I find that to be a serious understatement. The process mechanism of addiction is, as I observe, the most socially and personally defeating process yet to exist, and its damage exceeds that of all other defeating processes, in my view, by orders of magnitude.

If one confuses the psychosocial process of addiction with chemical dependency, one may get a book like Olivier Ameisen, M.D., ""The End of My Addiction," Sarah Crichton Books/Farrar, Straus and Giroux, New York, 2009.

If one does not confuse the psychosocial process of addiction with chemical dependency, and thereby is capable of some semblance of separation of variables, one may get a book like, Lance Dodes, M.D., "The Heart of Addiction," Quill/Harper Collins, 2002.

In my work, addiction is a trauma response in the form of a displacement mechanism (or psychological defense), and a core aspect of my ongoing research is focused on the form of life events which are concurrently much too painful to remember and too intensely important to forget, which result in the vicious cycles of overt addictive human conduct.

In my work, the Wall Street fiasco, the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Executive-Electorate-Complex fiasco, the Fiat Money Banking fiasco, the Oppositionally Defiant Political Party Duality or Plurality fiasco, Abuse of Children, Criminal Behavior, The Adversarial System of Law and Jurisprudence, and a host of other human conflict processes, are all addictive in the sense of neurological (human brain function) displacement mechanisms and processes.

The neurological mechanism of trauma adaptation which comprises the essence of the psychological defense mechanism of displacement is, to me both the cause and the result of socialization trauma, such as causes, in some people, the infant-child transition to be of the nature of a memory discontinuity of such severity that people report being absolutely incapable of consciously remembering some of the most important memories stored within their "permanent memory"; a discontinuity of such impenetrability as to render some of a person's most important life events functionally, totally, inaccessible to working memory.

In my more ludicrously sarcastic moments, of which there are but few, it has strayed into my mind that, if the present global human turmoil results in the total, forever, eradication of all of humanity, the earth may finally become hospitable to actually intelligent life; in the presence of humanity, were actually intelligent life to somehow evolve on the earth, at the first moment of recognition, humanity would immediately destroy any such intelligent life.

Oops!

I find, in the absence of any and every form of addiction, the traditional notion of personal guilt is a delusion grounded in errors of attribution; most specifically attributing to an individual person's disposition aspects of events which are actually purely situational.

It gets even worse or even better (depending on to what extent(s) and in what way(s) a person is addicted) when sufficiently accurate understanding of the nature, structure, and function of dispositional attributions reveals that, without exception or possible exception, every aspect of disposition is made of situational factors. The notion of dispositional attribution resulting in personal blameworthyness is an utter neurological/biological fallacy, one sustainable socially only because belief in personal fault/guilt, blame, is itself plausibly the most utterly profoundly dastardly addiction of all.

So I have learned, learned though surviving psychologically shattering abuse inflicted by my teacher and the school principal, in second grade in a public school in one of the farthest West of the contiguous 48. I never retaliated for the abuse (which repeatedly took me into the terrors of agitated catatonia) because, even at age eight years, I knew, was familiar with, and understood, that my teacher and principal neither knew, were familiar with, nor understood, how to treat me any better than to catastrophically abuse me in ways now of felony level criminality in said un-named State.

Reciprocal retaliation is the essence of the driving mechanism of addiction; it is, as best I have yet found, the ultimate defeating process, and is so far beyond all other defeating processes, combined.

So I find I have learned.

I do not retaliate, though my protesting the presence of harm may often be misinterpreted by people, who are sufficiently skilled in retaliating, as retaliation. Other people's interpretations of my life and of the way of my life are far outside any aspect of my actual locus of control.

>>The sentence was read out today by the judge.

>>It was scathing...

>>

Conrad Murray sentenced to four years behind bars

Michael Jackson's doctor likely will serve only two years due to California overcrowding

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45468611/ ... rtainment/

LOS ANGELES — The doctor who was convicted in the overdose death of Michael Jackson was sentenced to the maximum four years in prison Tuesday in a finale to the tormented saga of the King of Pop.

Dr. Conrad Murray sat stoically with his hands crossed as Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor repeatedly chastised him for what he called a "horrific violation of trust" while caring for Jackson.

Murray will likely only serve two years due to California jail overcrowding.

"Dr. Murray created a set of circumstances and became involved in a cycle of horrible medicine," the judge said. "The practice of propofol for medicine madness, which violated his sworn obligation, for money, fame, prestige and whatever else may have occurred."

Pastor said one of the most disturbing aspects of Murray's case was a slurred recording of Jackson recovered from the doctor's cell phone.

"That tape recording was Dr. Murray's insurance policy," Pastor said. "It was designed to record his patient surreptitiously at that patient's most vulnerable point."

"There are those who believe Dr. Murray is a saint," Pastor said. "There are those who believe Dr. Murray is the devil. He is neither. He is a human being."

Michael Jackson's family told Pastor they were not seeking revenge but want the doctor who killed the superstar to receive a stiff sentence that serves as a warning to opportunistic doctors.

"There's no way to adequately describe the loss of our beloved father, son, brother and friend," the family said in a statement read by attorney Brian Panish. "We still look at each other in disbelief. Is it really possible he is gone?

"The Bible reminds us that men cannot do justice, they can only seek justice," the statement went on to say. "That is all we can ask as a family, and that is all we ask for here. We are not here to seek revenge. There is nothing you can do today that will bring Michael back."

Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter after a six-week trial that presented the most detailed account yet of Jackson's final hours but left many questions about Murray's treatment of the superstar with an operating-room anesthetic as he battled chronic insomnia.

Lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff highlighted the accomplishments of Murray.

"I do wonder though to what extent the court considers the entirety of a man's book of life, as opposed to one chapter," he told the judge.

The doctor decided not to directly address the court.

Chernoff again attacked Michael Jackson, as he and his team frequently did during the doctor's trial.

"Michael Jackson was a drug seeker," Chernoff said.

Jackson's death in June 2009 stunned the world, as did the ensuing investigation that led to Murray being charged in February 2010.

Murray told detectives he had been giving the singer nightly doses of propofol to help him sleep as he prepared for a series of comeback concerts. Propofol is supposed to be used in hospital settings and has never been approved for sleep treatments, yet Murray acknowledged giving it to Jackson then leaving the room on the day the singer died.

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Murray declined to testify during his trial but did opt to participate in a documentary in which he said he didn't consider himself guilty of any crime and blamed Jackson for entrapping him into administering the propofol doses. His attorneys contended throughout the case that Jackson must have given himself the fatal dose when Murray left the singer's bedside.

In their sentencing memorandum, prosecutors cited Murray's statements to advocate that he receive the maximum term. They also want him to pay restitution to the singer's three children — Prince, Paris and Blanket.

It's unlikely that Murray can pay any sizable sum, including the $1.8 million cost of his funeral. He was deeply in debt when he agreed to serve as Jackson's personal physician for $150,000 a month, and the singer died before Murray received any money.

Prosecutors said the relationship of Jackson and Murray was corrupted by greed. Murray left his practices to serve as Jackson's doctor and look out for his well-being, but instead acted as an employee catering to the singer's desire to receive propofol to put him to sleep, prosecutors said.

"The defendant has displayed a complete lack of remorse for causing Michael Jackson's death," prosecutors wrote in a filing last week. "Even worse than failing to accept even the slightest level of responsibility, (Murray) has placed blame on everyone else, including the one person no longer here to defend himself, Michael Jackson."

Murray's attorneys are relying largely on 34 letters from relatives, friends and former patients to portray Murray in a softer light and win a lighter sentence. The letters and defense filings describe Murray's compassion as a doctor, including accepting lower payments from his mostly poor patients.

"There is no question that the death of his patient, Mr. Jackson, was unintentional and an enormous tragedy for everyone affected," defense attorneys wrote in their sentencing memo. "Dr. Murray has been described as a changed, grief-stricken man, who walks around under a pall of sadness since the loss of his patient, Mr. Jackson."

I wonder if he was ever paid anything for the good work he did before MJ died?

Or

As he said last week there went 9 years of medical school.

River

I guess we need to protect doctors from the 1% who might hire them as a full time private physician and subsequently lure them into unprofessional conduct and malpractice.

Dr. Murray the is the victim of such circumstances -

is what I hear the bleeding :hearthrob liberals (we know who you are) on Board.

Type slowly what I don't have understood.

Moi

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:22 pm I wonder if he was ever paid anything for the good work he did before MJ died?

Or

As he said last week there went 9 years of medical school.

River

Today while listening to talk radio I heard that Dr. Murray was getting $150,000 per month to be on retainer for MJ.

Eunuchus (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:02 pm Today while listening to talk radio I heard that Dr. Murray was getting $150,000 per month to be on retainer for MJ.

That is true, but he did not work long enough to even draw his first check. So my question is this, does the estate of MJ owe the good doctor a prorated check for the days he worked?

River

moi621 (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:57 pm I guess we need to protect doctors from the 1% who might hire them as a full time private physician and subsequently lure them into unprofessional conduct and malpractice.

Dr. Murray the is the victim of such circumstances -

is what I hear the bleeding :hearthrob liberals (we know who you are) on Board.

Type slowly what I don't have understood.

Moi

Moi, I am typing this very slow so you will get it, I am not defending Dr Murray, what he did was wrong, misguided, greedy, etc. All I have said is that he is the scapegoat to pay for the crimes of the other members of MJ's family that helped him become what he was over a 40 year period. He went from being a little black kid with a big nose and big lips to a white guy with a tiny nose and small lips, as I understand it Dr Murray did not have anything to do with all of that. I am not a bleeding heart liberal, I just happen to believe that Dr Murray is not the only guilty party, hence SCAPEGOAT.

River

moi621 (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:57 pm I guess we need to protect doctors from the 1% who might hire them as a full time private physician and subsequently lure them into unprofessional conduct and malpractice.

Dr. Murray the is the victim of such circumstances -

is what I hear the bleeding :hearthrob liberals (we know who you are) on Board.

Type slowly what I don't have understood.

Moi

Go blow yourself.

I've never said that to you MOI but this is proper behavior.

Conrad neglected his duty and killed a person. He deserves what he got.