Dam NHS

[punkypink (imported)]

Our society in the United States is a long way from being that accepting. Eliminating gender segregated public facilities, while providing adequate personal privacy, would go a long way in eliminating much of the sexual bias.

Actually, while as a practical method to help society realise that sex does not define gender and slowly eliminate sexual bias, I have to point out that in a society that lacks sexual bias, hav

ing gender segregated public facilities

would not be an issue at all. It isn't about sex, I do not wish to be groped any more than a cisgendered woman just because I am physically male. Having said that, I don't think I personally would be groped just because a facility is unisex, but sometimes it's nice to have a bit of "womanspace", and guys probably like a bit of "guyspace" at times. Also the right to use a gender-specific facility is very affirming for someone's self-identity, if their gender and sex happen to be mismatched.

While I am aware about US not being as accepting or superficial about identifying people, what surprises me really is a self-confessed eunuch expressing invalidating and exclusive, not to mention erronous beliefs, completely ignoring existing facts and evidence to reassert a claim at odds to the reality. Notice, he or she at no point even attempts to address or quote me, like I do not exist. Maybe he or she thinks if he or she ignores me hard enough, I will not exist and thus there will be nobody whose very existance disproves the validity of her claim. I find it very..... bizarre behaviour for someone on a place that is as open minded and as much at the forefront of gender and identity as the EA. Not to mention rather upsetting and discrediting to the very nature of the EA.

Moreover this should have been about Hungrycat's problem, and not about someone using it for their own agenda to talk about how only born-eunuchs or people with medical intervention are considered women and passable. It makes me wonder if he or she doesn't get a sense of identity and validation from deliberately excluding others so he or she is more "real"?

[hungrycat (imported)]

Humm...

Well Its interesting reading this, and its clear that people come from all different backgrounds, and have different thoughts about gender identity. I suppose that everyone has their own thoughts on how life has changed them and dificulties along the way.

I dont think that I can fully put into words how I feel but I have promised that I will do my best once I have sorted out my own issues to report back on the forum.

My origional statement was that its hard to get along in life, I hope that in the future that I can help others who are in the same boat as me.

I dont think that I can get along without medical intervention of hormones, but thats just my own thoughts and how I feel on the subject.

"Ryan / Rian" sounds good but not sure yet.... *_*

[punkypink (imported)]

Hungrycat, I am not sure if one of my original points got lost along the way, so for clarity's sake I'll re-state it

The doctor is not wrong factually, in saying some trans women make do without hormones or medical intervention.

However the matter of fact is, where it is clear that one is a trans gendered individual who wishes to begin living as their identified gender, the decision that one requires hormones should be, and IS a personal one.

It is NOT the doctor's place to tell you that just because others are able to make do, you should also go without. That is where your doctor(who self-admits their lack of expertise within this area) was unprofessional. It'd be like if you went to a family planning clinic and asked for contraceptives, and the doctor says "some people can do family planning by abstaining from sex, why can't you?" Not factually wrong, but highly unprofessional.

Would it be possible for you to seek a second opinion? Which part of UK are you at?

[devi (imported)]

That is patently false as pointed out to you many times. I am not eunuch by birth or by

[quote="devi (imported)" time

=1321224000]
medical procedure or by both.

Are you purposely ign
[/quote]
oring me because my existance disproves your claim?

If anything, the "others" the doctor

refers to is to people like ME, not people like you.

In any case you sound rather superficial and unenlightened. Quite at odds to what the s

ort of enlightened attitudes the EA is striving for.

You have been so very rude and hurtful to me thus far so here is what I have to say since I really don't find you enlightened at all (I really don't): I have never had a full beard, a very deep voice, could sing the same soprano as with the women, and in my younger days I made sure that I to do certain things in order NOT get confused with the women but I always could be one when I so wanted. For reasons of family and my identification, I generally never did though. Call me an elitist if you like BUT... With your logic even though you may lack having fur or a tail you may be better off going over to Gibralter, climbing the hill, taking off your clothes, and getting your picture taken among tourists as one of the Barbary Apes. It doesn't matter how you look because you, yourself would be thinking of yourself as one.

[punkypink (imported)]

You have been so very rude and hurtful to me thus far so here is what I have to say since I really don't find you enlightened at all (I really don't): I have never had a full beard, a very deep voice, could sing the same soprano as with the women, and in my younger days I made sure that I to do certain things in order NOT get confused with the women but I always could be one when I so wanted. For reasons of family and my identification, I generally never did though. Call me an elitist if you like BUT... With your logic even though you may lack having fur or a tail you may be better off going over to Gibralter, climbing the hill, taking off your clothes, and getting your picture taken among tourists as one of the Barbary Apes. It doesn't matter how you look because you, yourself would be thinking of yourself as one.

I'm sorry? You, who isn't an actual trans woman, is telling me, an actual trans woman, that nobody can pass if they're not born-eunuch or had medical intervention, even though I am passing, and I'm not born-eunuch or had medical intervention, and I am being hurtful and rude by telling you that you're wrong about that? And you're not rude or hurtful for making false claims and debating in a manner that pretends if you do not address evidence presented as a counter-argument, it becomes invalid?

However I do recognize that most others cannot and really should not try to pass themselves off as women (not unless you want to be an ugl

y homey old woman that'd nobody would want around other t

han family and welfare before your time).

When you made your post and say what you did quoted above, did you think about how saying something like that makes wonderful and courageous people like Elizabeth and others in her shoes feel? Hurtful? Rude? You're one to talk! Are you aware of the term "hypocrisy"?

The only "hurtful" thing I have been saying, is to point out that you've been making the repeated claim despite evidence to the contary. You're replying by implying I'm an ape. All you have done in this post is to constantly invalidate others, try to paint exclusiveness as practicality, fail to understand gender. Being either gender as the same species is not even the same as trying to pass as a different species. If that is what you're resorting to now to illustrate what was a weak and backwards point to begin with, I think you should really stop now.

You're much older than me and yet I genuinely have to point out that your reply is completely immature. There is simply no other course of action left.

[jerrytorp (imported)]

devi seems rather rude and closedminded.

[first post ever!]

[Riverwind (imported)]

OK lets all take a deep breath, in, out, in, out, that's better and lets calm down a bit, you all have been here for quite a while and I like you all so keep it that way and play nice.

River

[Riverwind (imported)]

You have been so very rude and hurtful to me thus far so here is what I have to say since I really don't find you enlightened at all (I really don't): I have never had a full beard, a very deep voice, could sing the same soprano as with the women, and in my younger days I made sure that I to do certain things in order NOT get confused with the women but I always could be one when I so wanted. For reasons of family and my identification, I generally never did though. Call me an elitist if you like BUT... With your logic even though you may lack having fur or a tail you may be better off going over to Gibralter, climbing the hill, taking off your clothes, and getting your picture taken among tourists as one of the Barbary Apes. It doesn't matter how you look because you, yourself would be thinking of yourself as one.

Starting to get to personal, lets calm down a bit please.

Dev, I disagree with you on this, I know people on this board that when dressed up can pass for a woman and turn the heads of straight men. I know others from this board that after surgery who you would never ever suspect were at anytime male.

River

[purpletomato (imported)]

back to the original question -- you always have the option of self-medicating (buying things on the internet, etc.). I'm not saying it's horribly safe (in my experience, consistency is more important than taking higher doses -- so don't take high doses), but there are a number of different drugs, some of which are safer than others. everything has risks; you have to decide what is the best path.

[punkypink (imported)]

I would not rule out self medication, but please consider that only as a last resort. For now, it is worth seeing another doctor for a second opinion. I'd still like to ask where in UK you are Hungrycat. Different areas may also have different policies with regards to treating trans people so it might just be a problem with the PCT in your area.