punkypink (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:51 am Yea see.... its not some trans women who have a female brain. It's most, and it's not "do", it's do. That has been proven scientifically over 10 years ago when they did a MRI or CAT scan on a trans woman's brain (one who was not, and has never been on any hormones) and found that there was an actual, physically female structured brain inside a male body, and that this occured naturally. Since then, they have repeated such scans on thousands more and found that it is likely that MOST trans women have a female brain, without the inverted commas please.

As for keeping their parts, the only reason anyone who want to change them is IF they have body dysmorphia. Many trans women who already have no problems identifying as who they are without any psychological conflict at being unable to reconcile their gender-sex mismatch would not see a need to have any surgery done. Since what makes us who we are is our gender, and since we ought not to judge books by the cover, it really doesn't matter what's between the legs.

And if what's between the legs doesn't matter, I'm not sure I'd like to be "positively" discriminated against by being seen as special. I don't care for special. I only care for belonging to the spectrum of womanhood. Even after an operation, one's chromosomes are still XY, which means 100% of a trans woman remains physically male, male genitalia or not. Keeping their body as nature gave it to them does not make them part-men any more than a woman who has double masectomy for breast cancer becomes any less a woman.

Now I'd quite like you to stop calling us "girls" please. It will win you no favours. Certainly won you no favours with me.

Punkypink,

There is room in my world for all sorts of people---str8s, gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, trans males and females (pre-op or not), cross-dressers and even drag queens are all acceptable to me. It's those differences that makes life that much more interesting and exciting.

What I have a problem with is all of this BS about Political Correctness. I hear it all of the time on the TV news.

"Does a rose by any other name not smell so sweet?"

Chill out some and sit back and try to enjoy your life without all of that.

You'll be a happier person.

Nuff said.

Charlie

CharlieIn413 (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:45 am Punkypink,

There is room in my world for all sorts of people---str8s, gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, trans males and females (pre-op or not), cross-dressers and even drag queens are all acceptable to me. It's those differences that makes life that much more interesting and exciting.

What I have a problem with is all of this BS about Political Correctness. I hear it all of the time on the TV news.

"Does a rose by any other name not smell so sweet?"

Chill out some and sit back and try to enjoy your life without all of that.

You'll be a happier person.

Nuff said.

Charlie

It's not about PC-ness. If you can't give a trans person the exact same sort of treatment as you would give a cisgendered person, then the only BS is the bit where you say u'll treat a trans woman exactly the same as you would a cisgendered woman.

Already you struggle to not use "" when referring to them in the female pronoun, if you can't even treat us the same when it comes to small things like that, on what grounds can you make the claim for equal treatment for anything else?

It's so easy to just dismiss it as political correctness isn't it? It takes guts to confront the issue head on, which it would appear that many here are not willing to do so in order to just pander to their own selfish desires and gratification.

Besides, trans is an adjective, not an identity. I can say that there is room in my world for tall women, short women, black women, white women, cisgendered women, trans women. Yet I refer to all such women as her, not "her". Celebrating diversity does not include discrimination. I suspect you struggle to see the fine line between the two.

So no, I am not going to sit back and ignore someone who's being insulting on the basis of PC-ness. I am not going to, or willing to be "happy" by hiding in a bubble and pretending I don't hear it when someone is being ignorantly insulting. Nor am I going to let them have their way and condone it with my silence. I enjoy my life the way I want to, not the way YOU want me to.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:15 am It's not about PC-ness. If you can't give a trans person the exact same sort of treatment as you would give a cisgendered person, then the only BS is the bit where you say u'll treat a trans woman exactly the same as you would a cisgendered woman.

Already you struggle to not use "" when referring to them in the female pronoun, if you can't even treat us the same when it comes to small things like that, on what grounds can you make the claim for equal treatment for anything else?

It's so easy to just dismiss it as political correctness isn't it? It takes guts to confront the issue head on, which it would appear that many here are not willing to do so in order to just pander to their own selfish desires and gratification.

Besides, trans is an adjective, not an identity. I can say that there is room in my world for tall women, short women, black women, white women, cisgendered women, trans women. Yet I refer to all such women as her, not "her". Celebrating diversity does not include discrimination. I suspect you struggle to see the fine line between the two.

So no, I am not going to sit back and ignore someone who's being insulting on the basis of PC-ness. I am not going to, or willing to be "happy" by hiding in a bubble and pretending I don't hear it when someone is being ignorantly insulting. Nor am I going to let them have their way and condone it with my silence. I enjoy my life the way I want to, not the way YOU want me to.

In other of your posts---as well at this one--- you continue to be upset with terminology. Fine! Have it your way.

Don't bother to reply.

In my opinion a M2F-TS after transition is a woman. Period.

Tranny chasers - I don't like the word, since 'tranny' is pejorative - cheat themselves, because the pre-op TS with penis and breasts is only a stage on her way to a woman.

What will a chaser do after transition? Leave her for another pre-op TS? If so it's not the person that counts. If someone only values some parts of another person but not the whole personality, he/she doesn't love genuinely.

George

Ungendering trans people is dangerous to them. Don't put their genders in scare quotes. If you don't know the difference between sex and gender, don't expect trans people to tolerate you. The way you refer to people makes a big difference. That's why we have the discipline of rhetoric- Putting things well is of great value. Trans people specifically are discriminated against through wordplay. Lastly, TS bodies are already almost all their target sex just via hormones.

Where I worked we had a fellow leave Friday and return for his "year as a woman" on Monday in a dress. Everyone, even those who disapproved, used "she" after that because she dressed and appeared as a woman.

A number of months after her operation, I saw her in Downtown Pittsburgh and pointed her out to a friend I was with. We both said "she" because it was "she's the one who did this and that".

How hard is that?

Besides, it's no skin off my nose whether I call someone he or she if that's what they want.

Punkypink

Theres a couple of your comments that really offend. See I was in a long term relationship with a trans we were waiting for the laws to change as she was pre op. Unfortunatly liver cancer took Renay from me before that happened.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am people who actively seek?

well that's a fetish. a guy who wants a trans woman is still straight, with a fetish for trans people on the side.

**See I actively chased her well knowing she was trans. It never was a fetish for me in fact to me the flesh doesn't matter the person inside is what counts. I guess I'm what you call omni sexual its all sweet. I had heard that Renay had a quirky sense of humor from a friend and told him I was interested thats when I found she was trans my reply was so your point being?

A "straight" man or woman who actively seeks out a trans maybe having doubts about their own sexuality and are trying the water so to speak they may not know they are gay or lesbian or bi in their head but the heart knows. They may feel it's not gay. Sure their are folks with a fetish but imho they are the minority.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am someone who dates a trans person but doesnt actively seek one, more a matter of "don't mind"? that's just someone who understands the concept of not judging books by the cover.

** So you feel one should meet by accident instead of looking? You can actively search and it not matter if the person insude is what you are after.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am a lesbian dating a trans woman? someone who understands what gender and genuine lesbianism is about.

**This has me scratching my head to me thats another case of it being either a fetish or experiment exploring thier own sexual idenity. So your saying a bi or gay guy doesn't understand a trans person???

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am In fact in the current gay community, dating a trans person would get you a LOT of crap, so no, I doubt a gay person in the closet who is also likely to be phobic as most closeted gay people are likely to be, will even entertain the idea of dating a trans person. You can't give the appearance of a normal relationship when you date a trans person. I should know. My ex-gf got a lot of crap from the lesbian community when she was dating me.

**Yes maybe in your area not mine. And not surprised at all about the lesbian community reaction. I have dear friends who are and well they can be cattier then a tomcat that you accidently stepped on the tail of.

__________________

CharlieIn413 (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:53 am In other of your posts---as well at this one--- you continue to be upset with terminology. Fine! Have it your way.

Don't bother to reply.

I'm sorry that I do not behave the way you probably want trans women to behave: dumb bimbos who are little better than a living talking sex toy for you.

Unfortunately, I prefer to treat people as actual human beings, not things to be referred to with a snort wink giggle and ""s.

georg_germany (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:34 am In my opinion a M2F-TS after transition is a woman. Period.

Tranny chasers - I don't like the word, since 'tranny' is pejorative - cheat themselves, because the pre-op TS with penis and breasts is only a stage on her way to a woman.

What will a chaser do after transition? Leave her for another pre-op TS? If so it's not the person that counts. If someone only values some parts of another person but not the whole personality, he/she doesn't love genuinely.

George

Pre-ops and non-ops are as much women as post-ops.

Judge a book not by its cover. Someone who can only date a post-op does not understand gender or what makes people who they are. It is the contents of the book and not its cover that makes a book what it is.

Free to be ME (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:41 pm Punkypink

Theres a couple of your comments that really offend. See I was in a long term relationship with a trans we were waiting for the laws to change as she was pre op. Unfortunatly liver cancer took Renay from me before that happened.

Let's clarify shall we?

Punkypink

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am people who actively seek?

well that's a fetish. a guy who wants a trans woman is still strai

Free to be ME (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:41 pm ght, with a fetish for trans people on the side.

**See I actively chased her well knowing she was trans. It never was a fetish for me in fact to me the flesh doesn't matter the person inside is what counts. I guess I'm what you call omni sexual its all sweet. I had heard that Renay had a quirky sense of humor from a friend and told him I was interested thats when I found she was trans my reply was so your point being?

A "straight" man or woman who actively seeks out a trans maybe having doubts about their own sexuality and are trying the water so to speak they may not know they are gay or lesbian or bi in their head but the heart knows. They may feel it's not gay. Sure their

are folks with a fetish but imho they are the minority.

Ah, you didn't go after Renay SPECIFICALLY FOR the reason of her being trans did you? You didn't go around seeking out a trans person specifically to date. You saw Renay as a person, and you didn't care even AFTER you found out she's trans.

What I mean about actively seeking a trans woman would be someone who generally goes after them for the fact that they are trans. You didn't, so I am not sure what you're taking umbrage here about, other than maybe because you misunderstood what I meant by active seekers and them being fetishists. For that reason, I would continue to stand by what I said about most active seekers being fetishists who do not see us as people, but as objects, things, and sex-toys. You on the other hand, was interested in her for her personality first and foremost.

Do you understand what I am pointing out here? If only more people would treat trans women like you do, instead of saying "oh i like girls with dicks" and objectifying us like that and then getting annoyed we can actually think for ourselves and not stand for their crap, I think the world would be a much more fantastic place.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am someone who dates a trans person but doesnt actively seek one, more a m

Free to be ME (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:41 pm atter of "don't mind"? that's just someone who understands the concept of not judging books by the cover.

** So you feel one should meet by a

ccident instead of looking? You can actively search and it not matter if the person insude is what you are after.

In the same vein, if you're actively looking to date, that's one thing. If you're actively looking to date a trans person, thats totally different. I'm not against people looking for a soulmate, I AM against people specifically looking for trans people to date. As I keep saying, we're not objects, so why objectify us? As you said, one can actively search for a soulmate, and it would not matter what the cover of the book is like if the contents are what

Free to be ME (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:41 pm one is after.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 am a lesbian dating a trans woman? someone who understands what gender and genuine lesbianism is about.

**This has me scratching my head

to me thats another case of it being either a fetish or experiment exploring thier own sexual idenity. So your saying a bi or gay guy doesn't understand a trans person???

I'm saying yes. Perhaps you don't feel the same, but you're not a trans perso

punkypink (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:30 pm n who is also gay I presume? Fo

r clarity purposes, a gay trans person would be a trans woman who's into girls, and a trans man who's into men. I will let you know a LOT of lesbians discriminate against trans women, especially pre or non-ops, on the basis of them having a penis making them men. Now first and foremost, if its the contents of the book that makes the book what it is, then it shouldnt matter if trans women have a cock or were born with one, as it is the gender that is the most important. Yet a LOT of lesbians do

Free to be ME (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:41 pm not and will not consider trans women to be women, much less date them. So yes, I am saying that sadly, gay people(especially lesbians) don't understand the concept of gender, sometimes even more so than the straight community.

**Ye

s maybe in your area not mine. And not surprised at all about the lesbian community reaction. I have dear friends who are and well they can be cattier then a tomcat that you accidently stepped on the tail of.

__________________

Well, their tails can only be stepped on because they're ignorant. The lesbians I know of who understand gender, and who are genuinely unsuperficial (much like you, where its who's inside that counts more than anything else) do not find my comments to be insulting or find me stepping on their tails. In fact they heartily agree, and are much saddened to see that it is their own community that is giving trans people as much grief as they used to get from the straight homophobic community. This holds true worldwide too, be it in USA, UK or Asia.

I don't know where you are from, but unless you are from South America, I will have to respectfully disagree with you that it is only in my area not yours. As for their reaction, they have NO right to react thus, not if they expect equal rights to straight people. So many of them talk about gay rights, and yet behave the way they do towards trans people, then really if they get offended when their hypocrisy is pointed out, that makes them not very good people isn't it, dear friends of yours or not?

I would like to add a final point however, that you're an admirable person in that you are precisely how I hope EVERYONE, straight, bi or gay, would behave towards trans people. Your example of unsuperficiality is one that should be lauded and upheld as the way trans people wish, and want to be treated. I am only sorry that Renay was taken away from you so prematurely, for I believe she would have been one of the luckiest women alive to have met someone who is genuinely enlightened.

There are some people here whose "acceptance" of trans people as who they are only goes as far as their own selfish fetishes, and everyday it is quite discouraging to come here and see so much evidence of such people, so I am very very grateful that you choose to speak up even though it might be due to us not being on the same pages, as knowing that there are people like you who exist, gives me hope about humanity.