As a cradle to grave Roman Catholic I would like to add to this discussion. God did not create the Holocaust, He gave man "free will" and man created the Halocaust. God created the Catholic Church through His son, Jesus Christ and the followers (discipiles/Christians). The Catholic Church is not perfect. If she were, then Prostestantism never would have occurred. The word "catholic" in Greek means "universal" so the Pope is trying to bring in the people who left the Catholic Church when that crazy Henry VIII started his own religion. In Matthew,19:12 Jesus speaks to all eunuchs: those born, those forcibly made and those self made (who seek spiritual enlightment) as welcome into the Kingdom of Heaven. Son Hence, the Son of God (our Lord) proves that He (God) is a loving, forgiving God and not a vengeful God. And finally, the GLBT community has not been accepted by the Catholic Church I admit. But, just as the Catholic Church admits that Galileo was right four hundred years ago, I believe the Church will accept the GLBT community sooner that four hundred years from now. On a side note, it is my hope that those Catholic priests who want to marry do not convert to being an Anglican then get married, then convert back to Catholicism as this would be hyprocrisy. The sexual impulse and the need for physical touch is very strong. This is why I am personally seeking the eunuch calm when I have my operation. I hope this post was worth reading.

bobberlove

Eunuchorn (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:43 pm This is my second attempt to post this rebuttal.

Then the problem with the first time was in your browser/Internet connection. No one removed it.

A lot of this 'age of the Earth' problem comes from the verse in Genesis that reads - "And the evening and the morning were the first day."

What a lot of believers don't stop to consider is 'how did God create the Universe'? How long did it take? Did He immediately set up a 24-hour clock? I doubt it.

When one is God, how long is Your day???

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:39 am I think that most religious right people do not believe that people are born gay. They think that people become gay because they are evil sinners who chose to be gay or they are recruited as children by older gays.

Which makes me Stand out even more, as a Religious Lefty.

I am a Christian Democrat. Wish there there were more for me to talk to.

tugon (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:08 am Nothing has caused my leaving religious practice and questioning the existence of the christian god any more than the above statements. If there is a god he knows what is in my heart and he knows the love I have. This judgement is from man and not a knowing loving god.

Oh and I would like chapter and verse where the bible mentions male prostitutes. I could share this with the young men in my employ.

Tugon, I am sorry to hear that the Bible verses I used, 1st Corinthians 6:9

Offend you so greatly. I will not be able to convince you that they were not from man but from God. I can't do it. I would say "it's in the bible" but others would say "So What?"

There is a thought amongst atheists that the bible was translated in a political way in the middle ages. this argument falls on it's behind when you take into account that at every seminary, young men are taught the ancient languages, and decipher the scrolls anew, making sure the Bible is translated in the common understood tongue.

Faith is not something I can talk you into. Either God is for real, with Heaven above and Hell below or he is not. If he is not, then All of every church is a lie, and there have never been miracles, and when your eyes shut, that's it.

I prefer to think that there is a God, and a Jesus, and Angels doing their best to keep us out of too much trouble.

I suspect that if I were in france, I would be called a Huguenot

A eunuch for God,

Eunuchorn.

Misha999 (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:56 am E, You quote St Paul's letter to the Corinthians but let me ask you, what does Jesus say on the matter? You know, Jesus, the Son of the Living God? Point out to me His specific remarks on gay people. Take your time. I can wait.

While your thumbing up the reference here is the last paragraph of an essay on the Ted Haggard sex scandal. I it wrote and posted it on a website for writers. The title is Eclipse: Notes on a Fallen Icon.

As I read the text of Pastor Ted’s farewell letter to his congregation it became clear to me that, for the moment please God, either he does not sense, or cannot, embrace the glorious truth that the Sanctifier who sanctifies him, loves him as he is; that the Redeemer who redeemed him, loves him as he is, and that the Creator who brought him forth out of nothing and made him in His own image, loves him with ferocious intensity. In the scheme of things nothing else matters.

Anyone who would like the full text can PM me.

M

Just out of curiosity, do you have any commentary on Warnke, too?

Eunuchorn wrote:

Eunuchorn (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:13 pm Just out of curiosity, do you have any commentary on Warnke, too?

I take it you refer to Michael Warnke. No, I have no essay on MW. I wrote the Ted Haggard essay because his farewell letter touched me. MW's life and his somewhat tarnished career, while colorful in a seedy way, doesn't interest me.

M

Eunuchorn (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:43 pm That's not what the Bible says.

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

If there is no God, then the Bible is foolishness. if there IS a God, then we should attend to the Bible's teaching.

Living by Pascal's wager will certainly not hurt you.

This is my second attempt to post this rebuttal.

1st Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1st Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

A little different from what you posted. It is again when the bible is used for a personal agenda that upsets me.

smithie (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:55 am Rome's opportunism.

The Anglican Church has to go with the majority, or alternatively, form a sub-sect for the dissenters as it often has in the past.

Objections or otherwise to gay, lesbian etc clergy are a matter for individual Anglicans.

Sodomy is not anathama to God, just to some people.

Finally, NEVER trust a member of the Hitler Youth, or the former Head of the Inquisition, both of which Bendaprick is.

Unfortunately, the leadership of the U.S. Episcopal church, for whatever reason, has NOT followed the will of the people. The majority of members are opposed to ordination of gays. By only a slim majority do they support female clergy. I know this as my mother is a member of an Episcopal congregation. Be it a high church or a low church, the Episcopal church hierarchy s fighting its own membership and its own local churches.

I am a member of a church which has gay members, does not allow women to serve as church officers and is quite far out of touch with today's realities.

The number of churches that are conflicted over the issue of gay clergy is unreal. The Methodists have been dealing with this issue for over 60 years and have not reached a conclusion, the United Church of Christ is even more conflicted as is the Disciples of Christ.

The fact is that the majority of those who have an opinion in the U. S. are opposed to gay marriage, gay clergy, anything gay. What most people see is the gay whackos in San Francisco and they think these are typical of all. They are not, but they go out of their way to offend straights.

I personally think that those who are gay and do not pretend to be something they are not create no issues for me. I object most strenuously, though, to gays marrying straights as a masquerade. The harm this has caused to many people I know is beyond description.

Anyway, I suspect that the invitation to the Episcopal priesthood (and that is what it is) will be accepted by a fair number of disaffected priests. We will see. I am following this closely as it interests me.

Those of us who are professing Christians need to reign in the church people who, unfortunately, run most churches.

Speed

Eunuchorn (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:09 pm There is a thought amongst atheists that the bible was translated in a political way in the middle ages. this argument falls on it's behind when you take into account that at every seminary, young men are taught the ancient languages, and decipher the scrolls anew, making sure the Bible is translated in the common understood tongue.

Eunuchorn.

That constant translating of ancient texts is a good point and it indicates some impressive scholarship at the seminaries.

However, I strongly suspect that the original texts were drafted with political intent.

Kortpeel