Actually, the Henderson tool will work without opening the bag. As far as i know, only young animals are done "sac and all". For a fully developed adult, it is better to do one testicle at a time. (Obviously, individual practitioners may make different choices.) Twisting the cords individually is claimed to give better control of bleeding in older subjects.

billf82 (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:03 am Actually, the Henderson tool will work without opening the bag. As far as i know, only young animals are done "sac and all". For a fully developed adult, it is better to do one testicle at a time. (Obviously, individual practitioners may make different choices.) Twisting the cords individually is claimed to give better control of bleeding in older subjects.

If you go to the Henderson web site you do not see any reference of using the tool on young animals on the sack. Where did you get your information?

What is your plan if I am so bold to ask if the twisting fails? Or if it does not tare where you plan it to? The tare is above the twisting? Try to twist your sack around 3 times. Can you do it? Do you really think you can twist it 20 times? The sack is jut too thick and short to twist. It may not just be enough to seal the end. If it reopens what do you do then. Have cords blood vessels, artery's and sac bleeding. Fast trip to the ER if lucky. The cords are long and thin. They can twist and break.

If the tool is used just on the cords like it is to be used you have the follow problems. Then there is the slit you had to make to get the ball out of the sack. How do you plan to control the bleeding? There is the infection factor to deal with. Gosh did I leave any other possible problems with this type of castration. OH yea the pain factor! That gotta hurt big time.

This castration is good fantasy in story books. But not good in real life.

C van D (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:28 am From C van D. I know I'm going on a bit, but I feel pretty strongly about this. Anyone who tries this procedure on a DIY basis is a damned fool and deserves blood poisoning. There is one place for it and one place only - hospital.

I've often thought what NASTY ideas some contributors have. Just look at "Secret Boy Lover" - where the general idea seems to have been not only to castrate the children and make them passive partners for sodomy, but to inflict the maximum pain and suffering. Stories like this belong in a Sadists' Archive.

I think just about everyone on this thread is recommending AGAINST doing it yourself.

Saying that people are foolish is different than saying they are damned fools, and saying that anyone deserves blood poisoning is in my opinion counter productive.

Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occurs sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell about because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorate the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

Vesal.

In younger years I have also tried to twist my balls. After two turns it is impossible because of the pain in the belly, but not so much in the balls. I would also recommend not to do it in this way.

Try other cbt like (sterile) needles, strong binding or slapping...a big field of experiments:dong:

vesal_mas (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:15 am Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to the this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occur sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell this because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorated the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

Vesal.

Excellent post.

vesal_mas (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:15 am Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to the this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occur sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell this because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorated the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

Vesal.

Thank you! Great post!

bobbie (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:29 am If you go to the Henderson web site you do not see any reference of using the tool on young animals on the sack. Where did you get your information?

What is your plan if I am so bold to ask if the twisting fails? Or if it does not tare where you plan it to? The tare is above the twisting? Try to twist your sack around 3 times. Can you do it? Do you really think you can twist it 20 times? The sack is jut too thick and short to twist. It may not just be enough to seal the end. If it reopens what do you do then. Have cords blood vessels, artery's and sac bleeding. Fast trip to the ER if lucky. The cords are long and thin. They can twist and break.

If the tool is used just on the cords like it is to be used you have the follow problems. Then there is the slit you had to make to get the ball out of the sack. How do you plan to control the bleeding? There is the infection factor to deal with. Gosh did I leave any other possible problems with this type of castration. OH yea the pain factor! That gotta hurt big time.

This castration is good fantasy in story books. But not good in real life.

I'm not sure as to your point. In my couple of posts, all I have done is to report the existence of a real tool used in the castration of livestock and to relay information based on my observation of a Henderson clamp in use and upon comments from some ranchers and a vet. This was quite a few years ago. I can't really say if Henderson use has increased or declined nor whether methodology has changed in the interim.

I can say that in the uses I saw, it worked. There was no visible significant bleeding. While I suspect that such a device would be effective on humans, I'm unaware of any empirical evidence as to safety, pain level, etc. I would certainly not say that livestock experience would provide data for predicting human outcomes. That said, I would get a certain pleasure from applying a Henderson clamp to the SOB that swerved in front of my car earlier today with bare inches to spare.

At the age of 16, I had the mumps for a second time.This time it was on the inside of my body. The right testicle swelled to the size of a baseball. The pain level were out of this world that night and for several months afterward. I am confident that the pain that I experienced would be similar to the pain levels if you twisted your cords as you are suggesting.

I am not one for using tools like the Henderson clamp on myself...

But, it might be fun to use it on someone else...The looks on their faces have to be priceless, and painful....

However, I am not into random torture either. There has to be a reason for use...e.g., on a child molester.

I have 3 girls and they better not get touched.

Anywya, testicular torsion is painful and not a laughing matter.