gareth19 (imported) wrote: Wed May 20, 2009 7:53 pm Christopher Tolkien was not a navy officer, he was in the RAF, ...While Tolkien did indeed send Christopher regular installments of LOTR, the work was conceived much earlier and serves as part of Tolkien's mediations on Catholicism [Gandalf is the Church, and Saruman is the Protestant Reformation]

Gareth,

I'm sure you're correct on all counts. I got my erroneous info during my bright college days, and from a Lit prof at that! Oh well, it cost me nothing...I was on full scholarship, thank God (to which my dad would say "Ditto!). For all that, I like the flawed version better

Have you ever read the Lampoon parody? Some have been enraged by it..."Sacrilege!...Sacre Bleu!" but it is a fun read for the fair-minded.

Anyway, thanks for setting this little girl straight. Smmmmooooooch!

Yoli

moi621 (imported) wrote: Mon May 18, 2009 5:17 pm "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair .

The influence "The Jungle" had on me lasts to this day.

Moi

The International Jewish Communist Conspiracy is just a smoke screen

for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

The influence I mostly felt after reading "The Jungle" for the first time (in Junior High, the second time being in college,) was such that I couldn't even hear "Oh, I want to be an Oscar Mayer Wienerrrrrrr..." without keeling over. I got over that and now devour "prepared" meat products, sometimes rather voraciously, without qualm or queasiness.

So far as the politics of the work in question...I'll leave that to others.

Yoli

A Bisexual, Eunuch Fixated, Omnivorous female, also kills,catches, cleans, cooks, AND eats her own venison, fish and fowl; and loving it.

Ok, I know I'm opening myself to criticism but remember, this is a personal criticism of Tolkein's work.

I don't like Tolkein. I find his work (particularly LOTR) dry and boring. It's obviously written by an academic. Only an academic can take the most interesting of premises or historic events and completely suck the life out of it.

Since I've broached the subject, I also find Frank Herbert's work incredibly overrated. It doesn't read well and it's boring.

Let the flaming begin.

Taylor (imported) wrote: Thu May 21, 2009 5:22 am Ok, I know I'm opening myself to criticism but remember, this is a personal criticism of Tolkein's work.

I don't like Tolkein. I find his work (particularly LOTR) dry and boring. It's obviously written by an academic. Only an academic can take the most interesting of premises or historic events and completely suck the life out of it.

Since I've broached the subject, I also find Frank Herbert's work incredibly overrated. It doesn't read well and it's boring.

Let the flaming begin.

Agreed - Herbert and Tolkein are difficult reads, dry and boring. But they both have fascinating stories. Herbert should have stopped about half way through his series...

I'm presently reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.

calmeilles (imported) wrote: Wed May 20, 2009 8:16 am Anyhows, my thought is that these are - if you'll allow for slipping in a few personal favourites - a part of our common cultural heritage; the sort of stuff that isn't ever "learned" as such but absorbed and by absorbing you can grok what the other guy's going on about. :-\

I was a tad overwhelmed by Calmeilles's erudite list until I realised I had read most of the works he's listed. And I agree with their inclusion.

However, to bring this discussion down to earth may I commend to you the benefit of kid's comics.

I started out on the Beano and Dandy (UK comics) and honed my five year old's reading skills. Looking back I can see that the values they taught were abysmal but very much in line with how kids of that age actually thought. And probably still do.

Later I graduated to the Rover, Adventure Hotspur and Wizard which in those days were complete short stories. There was plenty of violence and war stories with German soldiers saying "Actung" and Gott in Himmel." After my time they dumbed it down to picture stories and they were never as good.

Along the way we'd lap up American comics when we could get them. One particular story gave a brilliant lesson for pre-teens on the law of Conservation of Energy. The evil Dr. Kinetic had transformed his body so that he could store energy. The super hero, I think it might have been Captain (shazam) Marvel, was laying into him (bang, thud, pow) but all the blows did was increase his store of energy and make Dr, Kinetic stronger. Good stuff for kids.

Later teen reading was "Woman of Rome" by Alberto Moravia and anything by Hank Jansen.

Kortpeel

Yoli here,

I originally penned the following as a response to a PM but I thought it might inspire some here to consider yet other works, so here goeth...

"Anyway...My first reading of "The Jungle" resulted in my feeling revulsion toward processed meat products. This first reading took place when I was in Junior High.

I got over that fairly soon because I found my little taste buds were clamoring for Oscar Mayer Wieners AND Underwood's Deviled Ham.

The second reading, a more analytical one, as it were, occurred in college. My assessment of the book was that it was a precursor of today's journalistic expose's and was little more than a "ratting out" in prose form; Quite effective, too.

By that time I had matured enough to not run screaming at the approach of a salami sandwich so it did nothing to alter my dietary habits. After all, the tale is set circa the turn of the 19th Century and SOME improvements must have been made since...right?

The author had a gift for combining investigative journalism and storytelling. He did expose a very real problem and did so in a manner that, in it's message and intent, reached more "thinking" people than if he'd simply penned a lengthy polemic more suited to the news media of the day.

Speaking of "Sinclairs", have you read "Arrowsmith" by Sinclair Lewis? I liked that one...read it in High School.

Speaking of "Lewis",...Have you ever read "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis? Funneeeeeee!

And, speaking of "C.S.'s",...Have you read any of C.S. Forester's "Hornblower" epics? Ripping yarns of the old Royal Navy and the Age of Sail.

And, speaking of "Forester",...Do you own a Subaru?"

Well, I thought it was OK!

Yoli

Book reports done cheap.

Hairyharry-

I recently purchased that book after reading a story about a christian student committed suicide after reading it. I'm curious as to what he could possibly say to cause that reaction or if it was simply a "last straw".

Anyway, I had to put the book down after reading the introduction because Dawkins came across as one full of himself intellectual snob. I do intend to pick it up again but want to give my initial impression time to pass so I can read it with a neutral eye.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you have read so far.

T.

The "Gospel of Q" presents the enlightened words of a certain popular philosopher of Jewish and Samarian heritage that we generally take for granted. As does the "Gospel of Thomas".

Taylor (imported) wrote: Sat May 23, 2009 5:19 am Hairyharry-

I recently purchased that book after reading a story about a christian student committed suicide after reading it. I'm curious as to what he could possibly say to cause that reaction or if it was simply a "last straw".

Anyway, I had to put the book down after reading the introduction because Dawkins came across as one full of himself intellectual snob. I do intend to pick it up again but want to give my initial impression time to pass so I can read it with a neutral eye.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you have read so far.

T.

Seems a better listen than a read....

Try here - Minnesota Public Radio Interview with him - about 50 minutes. Actually, a good listen.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/displa ... dmorning1/