The problem I have with people calling transition as "living as the gender opposite to their birth" is that it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of gender and sex and the root cause of transsexualism. My gender at birth was female. my sex was male. If I wished to live as the gender opposite to my birth I would have no problems at all, because that gender would now match the body I have wouldn't it? As far as I am concerned, all I am doing is living the gender I have at birth, by simply being who I am. It's really not very complicated at all. People ask me how I transitioned without hormones or surgery, my reply has always been "i decided i just want to be myself and i accepted who i am, and my gender simply shone through once i discarded the veil of ignorance and denial". I have transitioned, because society accepts me as the gender I am now, but I haven't changed my physical sex have I? Does not having the "right" genitals make me any less of a woman? Once again I prefer to go the non-superficial route and asy that personality is a damned sight more important than a bit of flesh in the wrong places.

Of course I will admit that transition is really more about matching societal perceptions of the exterior to the person inside, but then if a woman, female both in gender and sex, adopts a fairly masculine dress and look because thats just her personality, then what? Does she suddenly become a man? The whole problem about what people think and commonly accept as being transition is also that we then add to this stereotype of MtFs being all feminine in nature and looks and all FtMs being all macho in nature and looks. But we are forgetting that personality is once again, independent of gender, orientation or sex! There are feminine men who are straight, bi and gay, and they could be cis or transgendered couldn't they? I worked out that broadly speaking, there are several categories that make up a person's identity: Orientation, Sex, Gender and Personality, and these are all independent of each other. There are in fact, 81 possible combinations! How do we make a judgement about someone as important as gender based on external outlook alone? Referring back to the women i mentioned above, it would be equally hasty to judge her to be a man or a transman wouldn't it?

Taking myself as an example, I am tomboyish in nature, so you could safely say I have a masculine personality. I am attracted to females. To most people if those were the 1st 2 things they knew about me they'd assume i am a man. But am I? Of course not. I am most assuredly confident about my gender, which is female. It would take a very shallow person to tell me I am a man "pretending" to be a woman or even a man "pretending" to be trans I might expect the sort of conclusion to be jumped to by most conventional straight people who by the fact that such gender philosophy is not within their everyday sphere of existance, but I'd like to think that anyone who is transgendered would be a bit more informed, even though I admit that is an unrealistic expectation.

Bottom line of what I am saying is, if we weren't superficial, shallow people, why would we put so much stock on the physical sex of human beings and whether they're transitioning or not to judge them? I totally agree with Danya when she says:

"

Danya (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:23 pm Transsexuality is simply one expression of a transgender identity.

"

Also, about this:

Danya (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:23 pm My U of M therapist made a very interesting point that is pertinent to this thread. They were continuing to learn a lot about the variety of gender identities and expressions from their clients.

I came up with a series of 3 pie digrams showing the old model of gender identity, the current one, and the one I believe to accurately reflect what it really is like. It seems to tie-in with what yr U of M therapist is saying, and would probably make a good visual representation of what they're discovering. I drew it up during a debate about a the nature of social gender recognition. I had it hotlinked here: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... 165723.jpg but it doesnt seem to load, im not sure if thats because im accessing the site via my uni network. I'll look for it when i get home and upload it again if i can.

Just my .02. I am a M to FM I had been on Female Hormones till two years ago when I had my Bi-Orchi. I present as male and probably always will. I'm very tall and heavy so I'd never pass. That have been said I still want SRS. As one of the previous posters what is or isn't in my pants is my business. I don't need to dress as a women I want to be a women. Then I want to find a woman that wants the best of both worlds!

Bobbisocksgrl (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:00 pm Just my .02. I am a M to FM I had been on Female Hormones till two years ago when I had my Bi-Orchi. I present as male and probably always will. I'm very tall and heavy so I'd never pass. That have been said I still want SRS. As one of the previous posters what is or isn't in my pants is my business. I don't need to dress as a women I want to be a women. Then I want to find a woman that wants the best of both worlds!

Go for it. Transition is not about conforming to any one view of a gender society imposes. It's about being who you want to be.

transward (imported) wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:50 am I have very strong opinions about this subject. I have run trans support groups for a number of years, have know hundreds (literally) of people who have had SRS, and even more who have chosen not to for various reasons, served on a board with Marcie Bowers before she went off to Trinidad to become the new face of SRS surgeons. Myself, I am non op mostly for financial reasons. If I had the $20,000 to 30,000 it would cost for SRS (unlikely as I run a small nonprofit at around the poverty line) I would spend it for facial plastic surgery which would affect my transition much more than the surgical creation of a vagina, which might never get used.

But I believe there is far too much emphasis on SRS as THE cure for transsexuality. This is reinforced by the media which always takes their transsexual coverage into surgery for SRS. I have seen someone whose wife has caught him wearing women's panties show up at a support meeting for the first time and within ten minutes the peer pressure group is giving him advice on hormones and SRS surgeons. And I have known a number of women who have had the surgery and have greatly regretted it. Not the transition, but the surgery. Remember, about a quarter of women have had SRS lose all ability to have an orgasm, and before about twenty years ago the percentage was vastly greater. And if you have a romantic relationship before the surgery, your partner may well not stay around after. Those who have had a rewarding sexual life before often find it much less rewarding after.

There is a small, very vocal and quite annoying group of self described "real transsexuals," who declare that if you don't hate your genitals and want to cut them off as soon as possible, you are not a real woman, you are "just" a transvestite, or "just" a cross dresser, "not, of course that there is anything wrong with that." Which I believe as much as the "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are..."

None of this should discourage those who feel that they must be totally congruent with their self image. If that is the case, go for it, Girl. But realize that you can also have a rewarding life as a woman without SRS.

Transward

I agree with everything is this post. I too moderate in a forum for the transgender community and I have many friends in the transgender community. I have seen lots of friends have both SRS and orchies for treatment of transsexuality.

I too still have my male parts, but only because i can not afford the surgery. Orchi would be fine with me. The only one this really affects is my wife and she married me knowing that transition was the goal. But I would be lying if I said that she does not enjoy having the best of both worlds.

I have seen many couples break up over this, even the ones that promised to stay. But from a good transsexual friend who wrote the book "The Squirrel Cage", which i highly reccomend, I got the following advice. "Don't do this if you don't have to". "If you can live happy without SRS, then don't do it". "Only do it if you really have to"

Now she didn't change my mind but what she did was make me slow down. There is a great deal of pressure within the community to transition. Many see it as a way of gaining status within the community. As if one is less worthy or less transsexual depending on what they have done to their body. The wholy grail being SRS with FFS. On the lower end are those claiming to be transsexual, but are not even on hormones.

Of course in the real world, until the last century all transsexuals had to learn to live with it. So the idea that one is not transsexual because they have not had SRS or breast implants is a little silly.

Anyways, thanks for the great post.

Elizabeth

...

EricaAnn (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:54 am where are you at in your transition process? Are you part time or full time?

I have been full time for five years now. I have custody of the three teenage boys because they chose to be with me. Going full time completely changed my life. I really love my life now.

Elizabeth

punkypink (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:50 pm Go for it. Transition is not about conforming to any one view of a gender society imposes. It's about being who you want to be.

For one so young, you are very wise. Sex and gender are more than a pair of pigeon holes into which everyone must be crammed. One of the functions of the Archive is to help people discover who they are – beyond the standard polar pair.

Feel comfortable being who you really are.

Elizabeth (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:15 pm There is a great deal of pressure within the community to transition. Many see it as a way of gaining status within the community. As if one is less worthy or less transsexual depending on what they have done to their body. The wholy grail being SRS with FFS.

I completely agree on this observation. And honestly, the superficiality and shallowness of such attitudes disgusts me. I'm glad I'm not the only one wh

JesusA (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:12 am o's noticed that trend of thought within the community.

For one so young, you are very wise. Sex and gender are more than a pair of pigeon holes into which everyone must be crammed. One of the functions of the Archive is to help people discover who they are – beyond the standar

d polar pair.

Feel comfortable being who you really are.

Aww thank you. You're most kind

For me it's all about apperances, I relize that's a shallow statement but in my corner of the world perseption is reality, I could careless if I have anythiing between my legs male, female or nullo as long as I am read as female, I will say this on the occasions I have been infibulated I would prefer not to have to do that so although I could careless I would like to be permently smooth either SRS or nullo

Ultimately we all do what me must, but just as it would be silly for me to insist that trans should not have SRS and adopt a non-superficiality stance, it would also be equally unjust, unfair and silly for the trans community to place so much bias and emphasis on SRS as well. Bottomline is, be yourself, if u need a SRS, it's because you want it, not because the community demands that you need it.

punkypink (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:22 pm I keep my genitals because I believe that gender is psychological, and whatever yr physical sex, yr gender is what makes you who you are. Afterall if a book should not be judged by its cover, why should who I am be judged by what is between my legs?

Thanks sooo much for this! I'm intersex and transitioning towards the femme side of androgyny, and I get so weary explaining that my gender isn't what is in my pants, isn't a product of surgery or hormones, and not at all open to debate.

It is who I am. Period.