The scrotum also absorbs the topical testosterone much better than other skin types. That, combined with the higher % of testosterone in andromen, I wonder what your new testosterone level was.

I imagine if andromen is FDA approved, and if you had a script from an American doctor, it could be imported for Americans. But I doubt it's been FDA approved.

jlc9292 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:12 am This post is found as replies to other posts but I thought it may be an interesting new thread.

I guess my body is really weird. I have been on shots, gel, pills, etc. since the 1990's. They took my peak T levels over 1300 at times but generally in the 800-900 range peak. I have been completely off HRT for periods of time and am currently off. At levels of 800 or so I had problems. I feel better, have as much energy, lose weight (15-20 lbs.) each time I get off HRT. I am married and my sex life is active off HRT. I have no depression, no hot flashes or sweats, no memory issues, bone density issues, or any of the problems that most talk about. The only change is in my attitude towards sex. I am able to perform especially with levitra or prostaglandin but really don't mind if I go longer periods between sex. It is also much more difficult to orgasm but I don't mind that either. My testosterone level is down to 13 ng/Dl or basically none. Below 50 is considered castrate level by most Drs. Certainly below 20 is castrate level. I have not had cancer. My Endochronologist is puzzled with my response to no HRT. I am curious if there are others that really do not see much life change off testosterone completely.

I have weighed in on this subject before.

I have a prolactin producing tumor. Prolactin turns off your testosterone production. Before I was diagnosed, my testosterone dropped below 100. I was, overweight, depressed, impotent. The way I describe my extreme depression is that life had a palpable thickness to it, like walking around under water all the time. There was no enjoyment, no zest, nothing but the miserable feeling that life would never get any better than that. Yes, I was suicidal. My testicles became, small and hard, totally atrophied.

Once I was diagnosed and treated, my testicles still did not recover. My doctor put me on HRT (Androgel). If there was any chance that my testicles would ever recover, the HRT ended that. Outside testosterone added to the system also causes testicular atrophy. Would I ever go off the HRT? Not on your life! The medication that I take to suppress the tumor (inoperable, by the time it was diagnosed) causes some other problems, (Endocrinology, as you are finding out, is not an exact science.) but I can live with those. There is no way I would ever go back to the way I felt without the HRT.

In some cases, the adrenal glands can produce a metabolite of testosterone that gives the same effect has having a normal T level without being detectable on a normal blood test for testosterone. This was used by the East German sports teams back before the fall of the Eastern Bloc, to boost the performance of athletes, especially the women. You may be one of those people who produces this naturally, and so do not have a drop off in your libido or sexual function without testosterone.

I actually tried one of the compounds that they developed for athletic doping as a sex enhancer. Bad idea! The result was that my effective T level was so high that was described, by my partner, as "bouncing between the bed and the ceiling." Regular Androgel is quite enough for me.

The gels designed for application to the scrotum work fine, unless one has no scrotum any more due to having that removed during castration.

This is not a concern for most men, even those castrated, as they keep their empty sacs.

The pharmacology inserts for most transdermal medications such as Androgel and Testim (incredibly nasty smell) inform the user as to the recommended areas of application because that was what was tested and accepted as optimal for that medication in specific. Rates of takeup of the medication differ as to cleanliness of skin and oiliness of skin at application and thereafter.

Men with oily skin due to higher levels of testosterone will not absorb transdermal testosterone at a rate as high as men with lower levels. Men who smoke have a dramatically lower rate of transdermal action due to the effects of nicotine narrowing the skin capillary blood vessels.

There is also the individual's liver function to consider. A person with impaired liver function will retain more active hormone in the blood than one with normal liver function. Liver function is critical to predictable hormone therapy.

I am on 4mg of Estridiol per day, no T-blocker but the Estrogen seems to subside the sex drive but leaves enough intact to satisfy my SO quite nicely - it has to have reduced the T levels as I rarely think about sex unless we get in the mood- it's like a lightswitch now....

I rather like it, without the sex drive as high as it was I can concentrate on other fun things in life......

Recent experience: Prescription for Testim came due at a time when I needed money more for food than for drugs. So I went 2 weeks without Testim. Even with Testim I have low testosterone level (3.0 freeT) . First couple of days noticed nothing. Next week noticed I felt much more at ease, relaxed, no sexual tension, and eventually no ability to get erect and penis shrank, noctural erections stopped. Oddly my testes enlarged in size.

After about 12 days I started to get highly irritable, annoyed with everything, including myself, loosing temper, lost interest in doing anything, and became very gloomy feeling down and out.

Soc. Sec. auto deposit arrived. I refilled the prescription a few days ago and am rebounding. I don't particularly like the heebie jeebie sexual tension I feel in my testes groin and loins; I don't know how to describe it; it's like I am on the verge of almost becoming sexually aroused (even without trying), but with no results. At least my mood and attitude are back on a positive track. Night erections are occuring again and testes have shrunk in size.

While I still wish to fulfill my lifelong goal of becoming a eunuch, my own personal experience of what it is like being a natural low-T non-eunuch (when not on TRT) have helped me to understand that my mental and emotional health (for whatever reasons) require that I have a certain amount of testosterone in my system, eunuch or not.

I suppose it's possible that after a long enough period with low or no testosterone my mind and body might somehow self-adjust and rebound from feelings of irritability and gloomyness. Those feelings are unpleasant enough however that I'm not sure I would want to experience a long term without TRT. Yet it appears others either don't have such negative consequences from low or no testosterone, or they are able to deal with the consequences better than I. But I may need to cut back on my TRT dosage as the constant low level sexual urge feelings are becoming a bit bothersome.....not as bothersome as being moody and gloomy, but bothersome nonetheless.

We must keep in mind that we are all individuals and that our personal experiences we relate are not meaningful in statistical terms as predictors of someone else's physiological and mental reactions. Our personal terms chosen to describe our reactions can be misinterpreted unless we filter them through a learned interlocutor who is medically trained and perhaps also a clinical psychiatrist.

One's description of his feelings and actions may not be clear to another. Also, one's own feelings may be quite different from someone else's. Generalizing from what are unique experiences is meaningful only after many individual experiences have been collected and placed into a collection for statistical analysis.

Examples are available in those inserts for medications where they list the possible adverse side-effects see during laboratory trials. While a few have those side-effects, that majority of patients do not.

It is good for us to relate our experiences but with the caution for readers that, again, we have individual experiences and individual ways of describing our experiences that may not provide a predictable outcome for another individual, even in similar circumstances.

streetglide (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:32 am I've actually been searching the web in hopes of finding some middle ground replacement that would allow strength and ambition without the T sex drive. Sort of a chemical on-off switch so to speak. I've read and heard Deca might be a possibility, any thoughts or experience with using this as a sole replacement?

I have alot of experience there. I don't think testosterone can be used for muscularity without also increasing sex drive. But other derivatives of testosterone can. Equipoise alone is very androgenically weak and used alone, will not increase sex drive, but will make you lose it. At the same time, it will greatly increase muscularity, even more so than testosterone. And vascularity will go through the roof. But it's not legal in the "free" USA...

Deca alone actually kept my sex drive somewhat up, but messed up erectile function. When taken with testosterone, it still messed up erectile function. LOL

I used Trenbolone Acetate for three years straight as an HRT, because there was minimum sex drive, but very good erectile function, a hell of a combination. Women seemed far hornier than me. It also caused fat loss and increases in muscularity and vascularity. In fact, in my avatar, that's what I was using. Need I say more? But when I turned 30, I found that my sex drive became too low, so I started finally using testosterone for HRT.

I lost my testosterone production a few years ago at age 50. It literally went to almost zero, quickly. I thought I had mono or something as I had alot of those symptoms. It was hard to get diagnosed, and in fact, it was my psychiatrist that suggested I get my test. level checked.

A few years before I was in to body building and had my test level checked, it was low normal, 345. Now with HRT it is 750. My sex drive is through the roof. I'm wondering if I start working out again how fast I will put on muscle mass, now that my blood level is to much higher than it used to be, maybe I could get really quick results.

I'm 58 now but willing to try, at 48 I looked the best i ever had.

There are a lot of good posts and I just wanted to add one more to the mix. If you use Androgel (or Androderm, Testim, Compounded) Testosterone daily you get a pretty "even" even level that mimics the normal male production. For cost reasons I switched to injections and its different. Its subtle but there is an ebb and flow that I can feel. At one part of the week I'm far more energetic and sexual then at the end of the cycle when I'm just glad to shove the needle in and recharge. BTW - Some doctors still prescribe large doses and long periods (2, 3 or even GAG 4 weeks!) between injections and this gives most men a roller coaster effect. Think PMS of the male variety only worse. If you get one of those doctors ask to switch to a lower dose but 7 to 10 days between injections.

All in all I think anyone considering being snipped should ponder a couple of things. Is life without Testosterone doable? For me that answer is NO WAY IN HELL.

If Life without testosterone is not doable why have this (Orchiectomy) done? Cancer? no brainer. Orchialgia? Depends on how other pain treatments work. TS? No brainer. Insane Sex drive causing you to harm others? Get er done! etc... In the end the treatment (HRT) is difficult to get right (At best) We can talk about the best way to achieve that and for those of us who are Eunuchs and thats great but for others who are pondering doing this for Fetish reasons? Please think really hard if this is what you want. And why? What do they say? "Beware of what you ask for... You MIGHT get what you want."

extremendc (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:58 am I lost my testosterone production a few years ago at age 50. It literally went to almost zero, quickly. I thought I had mono or something as I had alot of those symptoms. It was hard to get diagnosed, and in fact, it was my psychiatrist that suggested I get my test. level checked.

A few years before I was in to body building and had my test level checked, it was low normal, 345. Now with HRT it is 750. My sex drive is through the roof. I'm wondering if I start working out again how fast I will put on muscle mass, now that my blood level is to much higher than it used to be, maybe I could get really quick results.

I'm 58 now but willing to try, at 48 I looked the best i ever had.

In my experience, a dose of 200mg/wk or more of testosterone caused a very fast muscle gain. But at 100mg/wk, nothing ever happened. Also, when I started out, I found out that if I switched from one form of testosterone to another, I would start growing all over again. But if I stayed on one type of testosterone, my gains would stop, even if I increased the dose. This doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for me and a few of my friends. It would actually be legal for you to use 200mg/wk and also legal to switch from form to form. Also, at 58, taking in a little GH would do wonders. GH also makes your testosterone work better, not to mention its many direct effects such as fat loss and constantly carbed up muscles. You can order GH legally from an over seas pharmacy for about $4 per IU. And sometimes even at only $2 per IU. You would need at least 1.5 IU on workout days, taken directly before the workout. On off days, you can skip it to save money. At such a low dose, it would be cost effective. You can also get it prescribed but then they have to use American GH which is a fortune. Docs usually prescribe 2IU per day, or 2 IU two days on and one day off. But I have seen very good effects at less than that.