A Disgruntled EA User Writes .....

[haltlos (imported)]

Hi Jab!

I disagree with one of your points because I cannot read a

"well, I'll do just what I wanna do" i

n the responses to your post.

Nobody said anything about paranoid fools (THAT was on another thread... *GGG) and the fact that we are joking about paranoia could also be a hint that we are indeed a little afraid.

But then again I'm afraid of elevators either, so what?

Anyway, whatever I posted before it can't have been unmisunderstandable, so let me please re-say:

I think it's wrong to commint to paranoia much.

In my book paranoia is a euphemistic word for superstition.

That can be a disease in fact.

My suggestion(s):

1. One should rather try to keep a clear mind and consciousness than bothering about not to be "caught" or "prosecuted" for something he (or SHE, or She to him, or, ähm, nothing) might or might not have done.
   
   If you CAN tell the THRUTH you will always have the real world to back you up.
   
   If you prefer to pretend (And that also means NOT to do things you otherwise would have done) there will be just an artificial facade behind you; not a good place to stand if you ask me.
   
   Do what YOU can justify, THAT was my point.
   
   One and nobody should try and invent and apply rules where there is no real need for them.
   
   My point here:
   
   Rules and ruling are dangerous helpers because they cause harm for themself and may even actually only help the rule-breaker. (You don't know that one? Rules only hinder the ones that follow them, therefore they change the balance towards the ones that don't. Great, right?)
   
   Rules are great where they are needed and if they are carried out consequently, the rest of the world should better & happly go without.
   
   [/list=1]
   
   So all in all, you see I did not completely love your last post really but one point where it got interesting was when you start to think of something "UNFORSEEN coming up" and then there was something about screwing everybody else including you and that was the point I decided to respond.
   
   ...
   
   no offence, ok? *s

[Pueros]

I'm not aware of the full implications of the law in the country in which this board cedes jurisdiction but what precisely, if any, are the illegalities supposedly perpetrated here to give Jab so many concerns?

He lists some but I can't really accept his concerns about them. My country is far more puritanical at present than his but no-one would lift an eyebrow to see such matters discussed in such a free international forum as the adult internet. Also, since when has posting decent photos of yourself as a child, so that your friends can see how cute or otherwise you were in earlier times, been unlawful anywhere?

If the FBI or other agencies have nothing better to do than pursue us users of this site, when there really are many truly evil people to chase, it would be a sad reflection on them & their priorities rather than on us.

PUEROS

Ps:- Antonia: it's a deal then! When & where?

[jab (imported)]

The point is this: what catches your eye might not be what's actually for sale.

Now, put this in a law enforcement perspective: the pic of the little kid might catch someone's eye, because it's a pic of a kid. (We've already talked, to death, that it's pretty innocent - a nice pic of a nice kid who grew up to be the adult who consented to posting the pic. In fact, he's the one who posted it.)

However, once you have that attention of the law enforcement types, they might realize that there is a gold mine of publicity - all bad - herein. I've listed some of the attractive things herein, almost to the point of creating a nuisance in the formal sense of the word. (If my initial paranoid post shows up on search engines, for example.)

That's my point.

When you're alone, you can claim anything you like or do anything you like, and you *ALONE* will answer for it. When you're part of a group, then your choices are more limited.

That's no my choice. That's simply reality.

You can choose to accept some alternate reality, if you want. It's your choice. But you cannot choose it for others on this site, only the moderator can.

[Pueros]

I wish to respond with all due respect, Jab, to your latest message but I found your retort to my post almost incomprehensible.

Am I right in surmising that you're suggesting that some law enforcement officer, somewhere, would want this board's contributors busted for personal publicity purposes?

If so, please advise on what grounds of law? I thought that there was a right to free speech in your great nation!

PUEROS

[jab (imported)]

I brought up the possibility of this, so I have to be prepared to explain. For those who are frustrated that this seems unrelated to the original thread, uhh, sorry about that.

pueros asks a very good question: don't you have free speech in the USA?

The answer is an unfortunate one: "mostly." There are still things one can say that can make someone think that something illegal is going on, and can create enough suspicion to get a court official to approve search warrants and the like for criminal investigation. And once an investigation's under way, it starts getting really messy. (There are court precedents that say that if you're investigating crime X, say it's a car theft, and discover evidence of another crime, say, an unrelated homocide, the two investigations are unrelated'/. It's very confusing, and on the subject of child-porn the law enforcement people aren't very smart when it comes to paying attention to little details like "it's a picture of the author, two decades ago when he was seven.")

I can write, in any forum, about my activities. Free speech says that there can be no one telling me what I can publish and what I cannot. (There have been some good court cases on what isn't appropriate, such as publishing the plans to a nuclear bomb. That's another discussion.)

"Free Speech" doesn't protect me from the consequences of my writings. If I say/write that I've got _________ (insert any number of illegal things) in my garage, I have the right to say/write it.

But the act of saying it might cause someone to tell a law enforcement official, "JAB says he has a dead body in his garage, here's where he said it". That's enough reason for the police to search my garage, for example, to make absolutely sure that there is no crime committed. They'd have to convince a judge to issue a search warrant, first, but that's straight-forward in most cases (I think).

No, I don't like it either. I understand it, and I point out this situation in about as paranoid a way as I know how - hence, my postings - because there might be people out there putting content on this site that might seem inappropriate (pics of kids) but worse, led law enforcement to stuff that might really *BE* inappropriate.

[BossTamsin (imported)]

First, no offence intended to anyone.

Second, I wish I had the money to set up my own server and bandwidth for this site. Why? I live in Canada. Vancouver, if you want to get technical. In this province, we have just had a [child pornography / child abuse story] case go through.

A man was writing stories about the sexual abuse and graphic murder/dismemberment of children. Police arrested and charged him on the basis of 'child pornography'. Final result of the case? The charges (in regards to the stories) were thrown out, because the writings were held to have 'artistic merit'. So Vancouver seems to be a pretty good area for this board to be right now, no matter what.

As for the pics, I'm not really sure that the fact we have innocent (non-sexual) pics of children would change the opinions of law enforcement types one way or another. I think the stories about the murder, mutilation, dismemberment, cannibalism, violation, abuse, etc, etc of just about any particular group you'd care to mention would bring a higher response.

One last thing.... The EA is hosted by BME, right? So this means that the server is physically located in Canada? Good. Keep the relationship with Shannon (Mr. BME) a good one. There is very little chance of him allowing any US federal agencies access to anything on one of his servers, hopefully including the EA. (Not to mention that for a US law enforcement agency to get warrants for such information, or get the Canadian RCMP to investigate, usually requires hard evidence.)

Just my $.02.

IEunuch.

(Canada. C - eh - n - eh - d - eh, eh? Gotta love this country sometimes... )

[Paolo]

I'm a little surprised at the reaction to my post. It's as if no one actually read it, and is just responding to say "you're a paranoid fool" without regard for the folks I'm referring to - the lurkers and cutters - who might not like the light that any investigation might bring.

I thought I did reply to it. Right beneath it. I altered my pic and watermarked it; I believe I said "Not a bad idea." 'No one' may have read it, but I did. :p

The question is not, "are you above reproach". Never was. The question is, are you willing to have investigators crawl up the butt-hole of the others on this board - knowing full-well that there are things going on here that investigators WILL find that will encourage them to look deeper - because of your actions?

Keep in mind that the Archive runs through BME and several lawyers at the same time. Don't tell me ... I just work here. F

or anyone who is worried, keep s

haking the palm tree and eventually the top coconut will fall out of it.

My suggestion(s):

1. The moderator should make an announcement: such pics are completely okay, or not allowed at all, or completely okay if there's a legend as part of the pic saying something like "BBoy @ 12".
   
   And the moderator should solicit requests from anyone who asks, to remove his/her contact information COMPLETELY from the board and its databases and its backups.
   
   [/list=1]
   
   You have to understand: I'm a fussy process queen. In this particular case, the thing I'm reacting to is the possibility of something UNFORSEEN coming up, due to the short-sightedness of a member, and screwing everyone else. Including me.

A fussy process queen? I prefer semi-organized nonsentient chaos. I back things up to CD ROM. I have about 231 of them laying about. None with labels. Oh my.....

As far as the announcements, well, pictures that get posted are judged just as soon as we see them. It's sort of an understanding around here, so far, that anyone can put his picture up within the limits of on-topic and/or taste. For instance, if someone posted his pic of him raping a sheep, I'd take it down. It would have to be pretty extreme though. Members are always welcome to ask me to alter/resize/post their pics or to work on them for color, etc.,etc. As for the second suggestion, if anyone wants his profie/info wiped, it will be at the asking.

And to the people who have responded so far: don't tell me that I'm wrong. I simply don't want to hear it. Tell me WHY you disagree with my points, or WHAT other strategies are appropriate, or WHY you think that this is not a big deal.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. That's what a message board is for, to share them. This whole thread started when someone told me bluntly to take my picture down. I dont' usually listen to orders from God, much less a poster on here. I listen to polite requests and suggestions. I think your idea of text/disclaimers if fine, but I'll be damned if I go and take the time to do it to every pic that might be a minor put up in a profile.

I have only this to say in closing : if seeing a picture of child somewhere upsets you, no matter where it be - here, there or yonder or for what purpose, then I'd say some self-introspection is in order. We've already reached the point where there arent' even children posing in underwear in ads anymore, and in TV and movies, children are seen in bed fully clothed and wearing socks. "My" boys sleep naked, but for 2 who prefer boxers. Just thought I'd share that with you.

I believe it was Voltaire that said "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight for your right to say it."

[Bboy]

1. There has never been a successful prosecution for stories regardless of content in the modern US of A.

2. The local one hour photo wouldn't even GLANCE at the sig pics here.

I can think of one other board in particular where the members have become so paranoid about the topic that the board was set up to discuss that now it's mainly flames and drivel.

A healthy paranoia is good; being afraid to be oneself - within the confines of the law - is not.

[jab (imported)]

Your points are good. I'll take my responses to private e-mail, so that I don't accidently force this board into such a situation, also.

[Paolo]

I think we've resolved this issue.

The thread is closed, with no offense taken AND hopefully - none given.

If anyone wants to send me a pic for a signature, with commentary, that's fine. I'll post/edit it. Within reason, of course.

No raping sheep or fellatio on donkeys. I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere!